The Armour Archive

Here's what the hem looks like when it's all closed up. These are much smoother and nicer looking than their predecessors. I feel as though I can move ahead now.



Tomorrow I will have a look at how the pauldrons will interact with the gorget plate of the bevor. Gothic bevors seem to come in two distinct flavors.

The first is like the one I built. They have more or less conical gorget plates and the chin plates have very abrupt flanges. The length of the neck is accommodated by the conical nature of the gorget plate.

The second sort has a much flatter gorget plate, and the chin plate has a more graceful transition to the gorget plate. With this type, the the neck length is largely accommodated by the shape of the chin plate.

The statue does not have a bevor, so I just made one that looked OK, without considering the special requirements of these pauldrons. However, these pauldrons need to have more unobstructed travel toward the neck than the conical gorget plate will allow.I believe I will be replacing the bevor with one of the second type.

Mac

It's time to rethink the bevor. This is what I built several years ago.



Like I said yesterday, the gorget is too conical. It will get in the way of the movement of the pauldrons.

What I need to replace it with is something more like this. Note, the flatter gorget to allow freer play of the pauldrons.



Here are pics of my sketchbook with the old bevor, and then with the proposed new bevor drawn in. Side view.



Split front/back view.


I need to decide whether I will start with the chin or with the gorget plate. Probably the later, since that is the part that "interfaces" with the pauldrons, and is the thing I am most anxious to change.

Mac

I really like how the hem turned out. How did you go about closing it?

Xtracted wrote:I really like how the hem turned out. How did you go about closing it?

The hem on the pauldrons? (not the one on the bevor)

First, I broke the edge over a fluting stake with spot heat. This only gets you about 30degrees or so, but the tool digs into the underside a bit and that sets the place where the metal will want to continue to bend.

Next I hammered the edge over to about 80 degrees with a light flat(ish) hammer. This also involved spot heating, but the work was sitting "hem down" on an anvil, and there was no longer a tool inside.

Finally, I hammered the side of the hem with a flat(ish) hammer to close the gap. This could be done cold, but I feel better about it as a spot heated operation.

I guess I should have taken pictures, but I didn't. Sorry.

Mac

Whether or not 'they would have done it that way', you can't argue with the beauty of the result!

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:Whether or not 'they would have done it that way', you can't argue with the beauty of the result!

They wouldn't have been posting pictures and teaching all their wonderful secretes on the internet for free either...

Today I started the new bevor. After cutting the chin plate out of .071 stock and smoothing the edges, I bent it roughly to shape using this bending-pipe fixture. I have scribed the center line lightly down the plate so I don't loose it too soon.



The black lines show the area that I will hammer up slightly before beginning the hot work.



Some vigorous swats with the hammer....



Just enough to give some compound curve to the areas that I don't think I am going go raise.



The first and second courses of raising.



Comparing it to the sketch shows that I am headed in the right direction.



Here's what it looks like before starting to form up the crest. (we are looking down from the top)



The process is basically this. Find a high spot. Mark it with soapstone. Heat it up. Tap it down.




Lather, rinse and repeat. The whole process is one of pushing material down a little at a time until the piece is the right shape.



So far, everything has been done with this hammer.



For raising in under the chin, I switched to this hammer.....



...until the curve got too tight, and I had to go to something narrower. This hammer is really too narrow for the job, but my wider crosspeens are too heavy.



I cut a checking template to match my proposed profile, and use it to see what I have to push back in or flare out.



All this compression under the chin tends to make the sides of the piece spread. I restored it to shape be locking the piece up in the big vice, heating the center line to redness, and turning the handle. That's OK as far as it goes, but we really need a way to keep the sides from spreading during the really aggressive shaping. I have done this different ways, but today's idea was to make a brace of scrap steel and clamp it in place. This bevor-bondage worked better than I had hoped. I just had to remember to keep the clamps tight...Oh and to remember that the clamp handles might be hot.



Things are starting to look pretty good. There's still more shaping to do, but I don't want to get ahead of myself.



This shows a tentative fitting with the gorget lame template. Note how I clipped the edges so that the cardboard could flare.



I will probably start building that lame before I do any more work on the chin. There will be a certain amount of give and take to get all this to fit together, and I don't want any one piece to be so far allong that I am unwilling to change it if I need to.

I have overworked my left hand this week.... Another old injury that never really heals. I will try to take it easy and pick things up again on Monday.

Mac

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:Whether or not 'they would have done it that way', you can't argue with the beauty of the result!

Thank you, James!

Mac

Best. Post. Ever.

Remember to take care of your hands and arms Mac. I feel the same way about this post as I do for awesome TV series. I just cant wait for the next episode to be aired.

Im not an armourer but this thread is always one I read

Thank you, Guys!

Mac

Clip the edges! Gawd, it's so simple. I've always wrestled with patterns that need to compress or expand in certain areas and, well... they just can't in a single sheet. I don't know why it never occurred to me to snip along edges to allow it to do just that. Thanks Mac, this little tidbit is going to be a huge help in the future. Beautiful shaping on the bevor, by the way. Really loving how it's coming out.

This if the bevor gorget plate template I was working with the other day. The black line on the bevor is where the template came to. The overlap is a bit much toward the back, so I cut some off the template.



I used that template to make the final one. It is important to invest a little time and cardboard in the process. This template was the forth generation.



I cut the plate out of .062" stock. The gorget plate does not need to be as thick as the body of the bevor for two reasons. First, it is mostly overlapping the breast. Second, it's location makes it unlikely to receive the full force of an attack. It's the same reason that real breastplates are thinner on the top than they are in the front.

Just bent into shape, it looks pretty "flat", but a little work with the hammer gives it some life.



When I got the two pieces begging to fit together, I found that the overlap at the sides was still too much. The black lines on the gorget plate show how much I will trim away.



....and I marked the same amount on the template. I always trim the template as soon as I trim the work.



That's better. Note that the gorget plate is provided with holes for three rivets. When it is done, the one in the front will be a fake. This will allow the chin of the bevor to "nod" a bit. Because the pivots are neither coaxial, not right at the back, there will be a springiness in the assembly that will bring the chin-plate back up.



It is temporarily riveted together. Now it is time to make the parts fit together better with a bit of local heat and a hammer.



More like this.



Tomorrow I will work further on getting the gorget plate to fit the breast. It may involve moving the flutes under the neck a bit. We'll see.

Mac

Browin Auld wrote:Clip the edges! Gawd, it's so simple.

Glad you like that one, Browin. Use it for Good, and not for Evil.

Mac

Mac, splendid work...you make it look too easy.

What changed between Mk.I and Mk.IV in the gorget plate?

Along the way if you find yourself with the time (who in the world has that?), I think we would all benefit if you could show some more pictures of your sketchbook in the planning process, so we might discuss how you planned the armour to fit the anthropometry of the patron while staying true to the spirit of the original.

No small ask, eh?

Edited to add:

I ask this because I think it is incredibly important. Too few armourers, I think, are 'armouring on the right side of the brain' (Mac will know what I'm referring to). Learning how to think correctly about how the armour's form should fit the body is at least as important as knowing how to hit the metal. Knowing how to plan is crucuial prep for knowing how to execute.

Aussie Yeoman wrote: What changed between Mk.I and Mk.IV in the gorget plate?

I mostly make up a new template when I find I need to add material. The first one gets me "in the ballpark". The next one gives me a chance to cut away what I don't need and make things symmetrical. It's an iterative process. Sometimes I hit it on the first shot, but more often than not I go through two or three generations of templates before I think it's ready for steel.

Aussie Yeoman wrote:I think we would all benefit if you could show some more pictures of your sketchbook in the planning process, so we might discuss how you planned the armour to fit the anthropometry of the patron while staying true to the spirit of the original.

Duly noted.

Aussie Yeoman wrote:I ask this because I think it is incredibly important. Too few armourers, I think, are 'armouring on the right side of the brain' (Mac will know what I'm referring to). Learning how to think correctly about how the armour's form should fit the body is at least as important as knowing how to hit the metal. Knowing how to plan is crucuial prep for knowing how to execute.

I would argue that that's the most important thing.

Mac

Today I messed around some more with the bevor. In this pic we can see that the profile is getting close. I still need to pull the "nose" in a bit. That would happen later in the afternoon.



The thing about that profile is that it has the neck coming in pretty tight under the chin. This won't let me carry the crest lone down on to the neck like I want to. So... I needed to boss it back out a bit.



This leaves a sort of bulge that needs to be spread back out.



Here I am starting to fix one side.



I decided that the best thing to do with the gorget plate was to get it to settle in just above the flute spray. I will hot-fit the point later. It looks like I will have to forgo the idea of replicating the edge treatment of the plackart on the edges of the gorget plate. Between the height of the finial and the presence of the the flute spray, there is precious little room to get the gorget plate lying down gracefully. There's just not enough leeway for decoration. I may be able to lay on a couple of flutes if I am careful to make them bulge above the level of the plate.



This is the second first approximation of the falling lame. The first first approximation turned out to be a bit of a tight squeeze into the helmet. I needed to make the sides of the chin plate a bit narrower, and this necessitated making the template again.



As I alluded to above, I needed to see how things interacted, so I put it all on.... sort of. One thing I learned is that I really don't have enough room for a big honkin' triangular hem at the top of the fall. It's going to have to be a small boring little hem. The other thing I learned is that it's hard to take selfies this way.



The surprising thing about sallets and bevors is how much you can see with the helmet tipped back like this. Those guys you see in the paintings with only their noses visible can actually see pretty well under the edge of the helmet.



Mac

More work on the bevor today. The first thing I needed to do was determine whether the new bevor was going to fit like the old one. The old one did OK at the fitting, so I need to see if the the new one is more or less equivalent. I set the breast up at a likely looking angle with the bevors clamped in place and dropped a plumb line from the "nose".

It looks like the new one will work.



In the pic below, the template above is the second first approximation from yesterday. The new one was made by tracing and flipping, and adding a likely amount to the upper edge for the hem.



It turns out that I had the perfect piece of .072" scrap. If you look, you will see a notation within the hem allowance of the template. This indicates that I had a change of heart, and added a bit beyond the template. I used the earlier template to trace out the limits of the hem allowance.



Since the last time I bought supplies for my "axe", my favorite blade has gone the way of the dodo. I could not even find new old stock on Ebay..... I did find these though, and at a good price. So far they are doing fine.



After cutting the plate out and smoothing the edges, I used a crosspeen to draw out the hem allowance a bit.



The hammer marks are on the face (as apposed to the back), so they will end up on the inside of the hem.



Roughly bent into a curve before hammering from behind.



I hammered up the crest from behind with this hammer. It's one of my favorites. Its length and small face give it a lot of authority.



Too round on either side of the crest....



...that's better.



Because the steel is thicker than cardboard, the pivot holes will have to be "fudged" a bit. It's good not to get too carried away with this. You can usually "relax" the fit with a round file, but it's difficult to go the other way. The deep centerpunch dimple is the new one. The shallow dimple is the one from the template.



Bolted together temporarily to check the fit.



The upper black line is traced from the template. The lower one is traced from the steel plate. I need to get it up just a bit. A few light strikes with a round file and a bit of hammering will bring it to where it must be.



Here, I have the fall riveted in place and I am taking a pas to delineate the hem allowance. It's nice to have a little ridge to feel against the tool when doing the subsequent hot work.



The hem allowance is turned out flat in two hot passes.



And, then a miracle happens off camera. ( I forgot to document this... sorry)



The hem is currently pretty round. I think I will square it up tomorrow.

Mac

I see you put the third temp rivet in right where the hole for the lock will be, very cool.

Jason

Excellent updates!

Mac wrote: The upper black line is traced from the template. The lower one is traced from the steel plate. I need to get it up just a bit. A few light strikes with a round file and a bit of hammering will bring it to where it must be.




Mac

I'm struggling to think...where does one hit, and in what direction will the holes be expanded in order to make the fall plate sit higher?

I don't know who else has been doing this, but I have been copying out all of Mac's posts (most, anyway) and sticking them in a word document. Just from this thread, that doc is just shy of 400 pages. And I can't wait to fill it further.

For some reason, in my head, I had thought of the lower plate of the first bevor you made as sitting flush against the breastplate. I had no idea (I didn't 'see' it) it was almost vertical to almost parallel the neck.

Aussie Yeoman wrote: I'm struggling to think...where does one hit, and in what direction will the holes be expanded in order to make the fall plate sit higher?

I knew that was a bit vague when I wrote it.

The hitting part is about getting the two pates to fit without gaps. The cardboard template will pull up tight and conform to the other plate without any trouble. The actual lame, in steel, will not do this without a bit of judicious hammering. Thus, it behaves as though it were too short until it is made to conform.

The thing about extending the holes is just like with any other articulated joint. The interpivot length of the overlapping plate can be lengthened by filing the holes away from one another. This gives it a bit of slack, or makes it a bit longer. The result is more travel. In this case we are only worried about travel in one direction; up. Now, the same thing can be done by filing the holes of the underlapping plate toward each other. I chose to use my file on the plate that had never seen hot work, and was still in an annealed state.

Aussie Yeoman wrote:For some reason, in my head, I had thought of the lower plate of the first bevor you made as sitting flush against the breastplate. I had no idea (I didn't 'see' it) it was almost vertical to almost parallel the neck.

The big problem was that the area over the shoulders was more conical as well, and that was fouling the pauldrons.

Mac

Jason Grimes wrote:I see you put the third temp rivet in right where the hole for the lock will be, very cool.

Jason

Good catch. I forgot to mention that in the text.

Mac

Step 1) This should be a sticky for all aspiring armorers to read.
Step 2) I want to hire a photography intern to hang around Macs shop to help him with the selfies and catch the 'then a miricle occurs' steps.
Step 3) JT: I don't care if the entire OT and political section dies in a fire but posts like THIS make me thankful you host this message board.
Step 3b) JT: If this thread ever gets lost to a massive archive crash I will personally make it my life mission to be certain your cable-TV or satelite reception goes out when ever there is a volyball game on. Is there anything we can do to tripple back-up ceretain threads other than copy/paste them to word documents?

Sean

Quick! Get the shop monkies!!!!

Thank you for your show of support, Sean!

I feel as though some of my best writings have been lost in crashes here and hacks over on the Armsandarmourforum. It leaves me feeling a bit hollow and ephemeral when that happens.

Mac

Sean Powell wrote:Step 1) This should be a sticky for all aspiring armorers to read.
Step 2) I want to hire a photography intern to hang around Macs shop to help him with the selfies and catch the 'then a miricle occurs' steps.
Step 3) JT: I don't care if the entire OT and political section dies in a fire but posts like THIS make me thankful you host this message board.
Step 3b) JT: If this thread ever gets lost to a massive archive crash I will personally make it my life mission to be certain your cable-TV or satelite reception goes out when ever there is a volyball game on. Is there anything we can do to tripple back-up ceretain threads other than copy/paste them to word documents?

Sean

Don't worry there are several of us capturing things as we go.

Some people like making tools. You know who you are. I do not like making tools. My shop is cluttered with tools that don't quite do what I had hoped they would do. Nevertheless, I could see that the tools I had at my disposal were not really getting 'er done, so a had to break down and make something different.

This is ground down from one of those stakes from the Lynch clearance sales. What I needed was something that would support the lower (angled) facet of the hem while I hammered on the upper (horizontal) facet. The cut away provides hammer clearance.



After an initial (undocumented) course of squaring up the hem with a small square faced hammer, I shifted to working alternately between the vertical facet and the horizontal facet. The new tool supported the angled facet during that later mentioned process. (These pics were posed. The process actually happened hot).



The results were not at all bad. I think this tool might be one of the rare "good ones". One of the things I like about it is that the "mistake marks" are correct. Not those little hacks....I made those by applying the square faced hammer a bit too cavalierly . I mean the slight recurve where the angled faced meets the body of the plate. These happened when I failed to have the tool tucked in tightly enough. You see that same sort of thing on real hems; and that smells of authentic technique.

Overall, things look like they will grind out looking OK. I could try sharpening things up some more, but I fear that it would be at the risk of screwing things up.



I feel in general that our collective understanding of hems is in need of some brainstorming. We should have a "hem symposium", where we can all get together and demonstrate and discuss what we do. Is someone out there interested in hoisting the first "Hemcon"?

Mac

Umm.... my shop is barely big enough for me... Though I would love to attend one!

Mac wrote:
I feel in general that our collective understanding of hems is in need of some brainstorming. We should have a "hem symposium", where we can all get together and demonstrate and discuss what we do. Is someone out there interested in hoisting the first "Hemcon"?

Mac

Philly is closer than Wades in NC. You want to hold any open-shop type thing and if I'm not away on business I'll be there.

Sean

Mac wrote: Is someone out there interested in hoisting the first "Hemcon"?

Mac

Unfortunately, spell checkers only go so far. I meant that to say "hosting" rather than "hoisting". I hope that someone else will organize it.

Mac

I have multiple stakes, three anvils, one leg vice, lots of material, A/C , 700 s/f and 30' high ceiling in Key Largo. I'd love to host a Hem happening!

I'd love to come down for that! Bit of a slog for me though... One even day...

Gruber wrote:I have multiple stakes, three anvils, one leg vice, lots of material, A/C , 700 s/f and 30' high ceiling in Key Largo. I'd love to host a Hem happening!

Hmm. That is about as far away from most people as you can get and still be in the contiguous US. Drive from NC, get to Florida, and then start the real drive...

Wade

This is true... but the seafood and ocean breeze are excellent!