Beginner - Do the splints go on the inside or the outside?

Galon · Post by **Galon** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 7:07 am

I would like to propose a new header for people to use. We already are supposed to use AR as a header in the subject for armour reviews, I would like to propose Beginner for beginner topics and Advanced for the harder ones...

AR - Armour Reviews
BEG or Beginner - Beginner questions
ADV or Advanced - Advanced Questions

This is no way an attempt to catagorize what people know or dont know, but in this way we all learn the basics and then progress on to the advanced...

Now on to my question..

Which is more proper, to have the splints on the inside the leather or on the outside, I have built both and prefer the splints on the inside, but due to my efforts to become more authentic I wish to know which is more accurate.

thanks

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 7:28 am

I think it was done both ways, It seems like it would be more comfortable to put them on the outside.Less chafing ect.Also it would look nice and shiney!Looking more like armour.But these are just my opinions,If I were making them I would put them outside, but to each his own.Another thing I might add, In real combat with sharp steel,the splints would protsct the leather from cuts if on the outside,whereas if on the inside the leather would be damaged easier....Otto

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 7:31 am

Also, it seems to me(but I could be wrong, as I've never used splints)that the splint would absorb the shock from a concussive blow better if on the outside.....Otto

Templar Bob/De Tyre · Post by **Templar Bob/De Tyre** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 8:07 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Otto von Teich:
I think it was done both ways, It seems like it would be more comfortable to put them on the outside.Less chafing ect.Also it would look nice and shiney!Looking more like armour.But these are just my opinions,If I were making them I would put them outside, but to each his own.Another thing I might add, In real combat with sharp steel,the splints would protsct the leather from cuts if on the outside,whereas if on the inside the leather would be damaged easier....Otto<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's possible that the splints were alternated, with some on the outside and some on the inside. That's the best way I can think of to interpret the "studded and splinted" look often seen in 14th century German effigies.

------------------
Robert Coleman, Jr.

The Noble Companie and Order of St. Maurice

Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.

white mountain armoury · Fri Mar 23, 2001 8:07 am

i like mine on the inside, i think evidence supporst both.

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:57 am

splints on the inside=COP
splints on the outside=lamelar

I think

Rev. George · Post by **Rev. George** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:15 am

splints on the inside=COP
splints on the outside=lamelar

I think 

Ummm not quite...
A cop has plates, usually larger ones, on the inside, rivetted to a garment.
Lammelar is a seris of small plates (lammelae) laced together w/o a garment...
Samll plates rivetted to a garment on the outside is scale,
while small plates rivetted on the inside is a brig...

-+G

Clay · Post by **Clay** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:56 am

CoPs and Lamellar are not considered splinted defenses.

FWIW, I like them on the outside.

Joe The Armor Weenie · Fri Mar 23, 2001 12:13 pm

Where is the cutoff point between a COP and a Brig? Dimension of plates and such? Or is it a difference or garment type?

- Joe

------------------
Proverb- If at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving.

Norman · Post by **Norman** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 12:37 pm

Clay --
I have seen lamellar refered to as splinted.

Joe --
The answer to your question depends on the author.
As I see it - a Coat of Plates is a generic term -- any armour with plates on fabric (including inside and outside).
Brigandine would be any armour with plates inside (per Robinson -- the earliest Brigandine he knows about is 7th century Chinese).
Scale would be a particular subclass of Coat of Plates with small scale-shaped plates on the outside.

But many Eurocentric Authors use "Coat of Plates" for the earlier forms of Brigandine (ie: Wisby), and Brigandine for the later ones.
I guess the cut-off point is around Wisby time (late1 14th).

But back to the original question --
I assume you mean the splinted arm and leg defense?
You should probably specify Time and Place --
since these run from like the 6th century through the ? 16th -- from Japan to Germany.

------------------
Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)

Galon · Post by **Galon** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 1:55 pm

thank you gentlemen for your prompt answers..

this is the primary purpose of coming up with headers, to allow for most simple and even the complicated ones to be answered quickly.

Personally, I am aiming for splinted legs and arms circa 14th century, specifically 1363, does that help?

thank you all for your prompt answers

[This message has been edited by Galon (edited 03-23-2001).]

Gaston · Post by **Gaston** » Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:34 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Galon:

Personally, I am aiming for splinted legs and arms circa 14th century, specifically 1363, does that help?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For what part of the world? The English seem to have some preference for a few wider splints, the German armours are mostly narrow splint and stud. Flemish and French armours show both. I've also seen 2-splint variations on gutter greaves, and the Osprey "Knight of Outremer" shows an arm defense that looks like a bazuband made of two layers of unhardened leather with splints in between them.

Galon · Post by **Galon** » Sat Mar 24, 2001 10:56 am

welp, since the welsh would have had similar armour to the english I would be safe goin down that road, and I should follow that pattern....but would they have put the splints on the inside or the outside...?

Gaston · Post by **Gaston** » Sat Mar 24, 2001 10:16 pm

The English splinted armour (vambraces, mostly) I've seen in depictions of the period tend to be wider splints, close together, on the outside. I don't imagine a need for inner splints because of that.

I'm getting that impression from various effigies, if you'd like a specific example I can dig one or two out, but it may take a day or two.