Outward roll on a Maximillian spaulder?

[Llewelyn Gododdin]

Sooo.. I know this conversation has been done do death BUT I have been working on a maximillian armour for a while and the example I am using is a suit at the met dated 1525. The issue I have is some of the rolls are uncharacteristic of that time frame, mainly the roll at the top of the spaulder is turned outward rather then inward (pic here, not mine snatched from flikr https://www.flickr.com/photos/thoog/4248032672/ )

I know the magic date is around 1510 for the outward/inward switch and I was wondering if this could be a replaced piece?

Finally, if it I am making a version of this armor and the roll is indeed NOT a replaced component of this suit should I turn the roll on my armour outward to stay true to this suit and deal with the armour police constantly telling me that I messed up or do I make my armour "more accurate" by doing an inward roll?

Thanks guys!

[Llewelyn Gododdin]

close up of the roll look at the edges and gaps

[Mac]

Llewellyn,

I don't think there is any reason to think that those spaulders are not authentic and contemporary with the rest of the armor. The basegews are another matter.

It's hard to tell from the pictures if the hem is to the inside or the outside. When I built an armor based on this one, I turned the hems to the inside. If I did it wrong, no one has mentioned it....

.....Which brings us to the subject of these "armor police" whom you fear would taunt you for turning the hem the wrong way. In my experience the guys who would pick those particular nits are the guys who can't tell whether the overall shape is right. They can't see the forest, but they can identify one or two species of trees, so that's what they talk about. Finding that they are not fit to judge the whole, they judge the parts they think they understand. You can just stop worrying about those bogymen and trolls.

Work on making the whole thing look "right".

Mac

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

Edges rolled the 'wrong' way occasionally occur on 16th c. armour, particularly the closer to the year 1500 you get, with the deciding factor seeming (to me, at least) sometimes which is easier to do on a particular spot. I dunno, maybe you just have an old journeyman who is used to doing it that way. Anyway, it seems to me that I have seen that on some of the Maximilian stuff I've worked on.

[wcallen]

As Mac and James have said, the "rule" is actually a bit more of a guideline than we like to think. It is generally accurate, but not when it isn't.

I also don't see any reason those rolls don't go in. The "gotchas" on this one are similar:
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-147.html

And it goes in. Similar time period, very similar piece. The "rolls" are a little smaller, but the idea is the same.

As I remember, the thing across the top isn't even a real roll. I could check if it matters.

And these are an example of "the rule is the rule except when it isn't" -
http://www.allenantiques.com/A-100.html
All go in except the inner one at the wrist of the cuff. It goes out. I have found this several times where there are big rolls that go in, but one little tiny one on one edge that goes out. It must have felt easier at the time.

I would personally do those in. If you do them out, make very sure the edge is really clean, so that it will have the same look at a distance. I expect that you will be happier over time if you just do them in. Less to worry about over the next 10 years as you have the piece lying around.

We could go into all sorts of oddities on how to deal with overlaps in rolls that go in... they had fun with them.

Wade

[Llewelyn Gododdin]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the input. Now its back to the shop, I suspect I will make it both ways and go with what I like better. I really love 16th century armour but getting my patterns just right has been a lot of work.

[wcallen]

I have done 16th c. armour where I try to get the patterns "just right" and I have done it the other way. Different people work differently, but I appear to be a "wing it" type (within reason). I get the patterns pretty close and then make the metal work. I like that you can move metal around (again within reason) to match the needs of the piece.

Wade