The Armour Archive

Hey after looking at the shield edging thread I am interested in making a wooden shield. I know how to bend and shape the buggers, but where and at what angle do you mount the straps and grips. How about some pics of the back of peoples shields!?

Drake:

This discription should help you out a bit. It's what I've used to mount my shields for years. I think it'll work for you, too:

<B>1. Drill a hole in the upper left corner of the heater shield (the area closet to your left hand).

2. Run a cord through the corner. Leave enough cord to go through the hole and hang down about two feet or so.

3. Suspend the shield from something by the corner. Once you have the cord suspended by one end, let the other end drop to the back of the shield. Tie a fender washer to that end.

4. Draw a line on the back of the shield that follows the line of the cord. This is the center of gravity line.

5. Find the exact center of the shield and mark that point. Your elbow should go just before that mark.

6. Cut the shield down, and do a tracing of your forearm and fist, following the center of gravity line you marked on the inside of the shield. If you need more protection for your leg, put the outline of your fist closer to the corner. If you want a more balanced shield, put the fist outline further back.

7. Grab the item you wish to use as a handle. While holding this in your hand, find a position that is comfortable. Now, place your hand in the outline you drew on the back of your shield, and place the lines on the back of the shield across your fist outline.

8. Draw a strap outline, positioned 1"- 2" before where the elbow bends.

9. Determine where your carriage-bolts will go. Once you've mounted them, you're done.</B>

Hope this helps,



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Robert Coleman, Jr.

The Noble Companie and Order of St. Maurice

Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.

Drake:

That is a tough one because it depends on preferrence. I have seen some shieds with the handle all the way up in the corner, others strapped horizonally etc.
Experiment and see what you like.

BEDLAM

All the references I've seen to kite shields in period say that they were centergrips. They would also have a leather strap attached to it that would wrap around the right shoulder and around his body (if carrying in left hand), presumably to take off some of the weight.
This would make sense to me since then you could just push against the strap to keep it in front of you, rather than using a tiny deltoid muscle to suspend it.
I've also heard that kites were used mainly by horsemen, and that they were held behind the rider in order to protect their backs.

HELMUT

Footmen used them all the time.

As I understood it, the Earlier Center-Boss Kites are center grips,
the later are something else.

I've only seen the inside of the center grips.
The center grip is not just a Door-handle type thing --
It is two leather straps mounted on rings (if you find Turkish, Persian, Indian round shields on E-bay where they show the inside -- it's just like that)

-- Mark your attachment points equidistant from each other (forming a square if the shield stands with center perpendicular to the ground) to the outside of the Boss - spaced to give plenty of room for your hand.
-- Best to attach rings, but you can just rivet the leather straps -- so that the two straps are parallel to the centerline of the shield.
You will be gripping both straps in your fist when fighting.

-- add a guige strap - a long strap that will hang the shield from our neck.
-- you can also add two more straps at the same rings - running perpendicular to the centerline of the shield (so that the four straps form a square) --
then you can alternate grip in battle situations between having the shield centerline perpendicular or parallel to the ground.


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Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)

Greetings,

The way that Templar Bob discribes only works with heaters I think. For a kite the best way is to find the center of balance. Using your hand as a balance point move the shild around until you don't need to hold it up with your other hand. Mark that point. I think that is where you bottom strap is supposed to go. Some one else will have to verify that though.

Because a kite has more weight on the bottom your arm will need to be almost staight up and down. If you plan on fighting a closed style than a little less so. If you don't get the straps right your arm will get tired out much quicker. You will probably have a number of holes in your first shield.

As far a bending goes...I can't say with metal. I made mine(heater) out of plywood. Take two pieces of 1/4" plywood. Cut out your shield on both pieces. (It would be a good idea to make on a bit larger to account for the curve.) Get some carpenders glue or a wood glue of some sort, a barrel, some rope(several nylon tie straps work very well.)

Cover one side two shields cutouts and press them together. Strap the laminated shield onto the side of the barrel(large piece out). It is best to use several straps(ratcheting ones are great) on the top, bottom, and middle of the shield. Slowly tighten them in turn until you have the curve you want.

Another tip that is handy is to put a couple pieces of something like 2x4's along the sides of the shield(under the straps) help distribute the pressure from the straps. If you don't do this you will have a wavy edge.(anything stiff enough would work)

When you get it to the desired curve take it a bit farther as there will be a small about of backspring when you take it off.

Then just wait. Don't do this were it is cold or your glue won't dry. Give it lots of time! Expecially if you used lots of glue. When I made mine I didn't leave it long enough and though it was fine for a while within 24 hours it had split apart. Again- give it lots of time! I left mine for a week, but that might have been a little overkill.

That is about it. When I finished I went around the edges and where it hadn't closed well from lack of glue or lack of pressure I poured or used a touthpick with glue to fill the cracks. Then clamped them up.

I hope that helps!


Llywelyn Fawr Ap Iowerth

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Stay open minded, but not so open minded that your brains fall out.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Llywelyn:
<B>Greetings,

The way that Templar Bob discribes only works with heaters I think. For a kite the best way is to find the center of balance. Using your hand as a balance point move the shild around until you don't need to hold it up with your other hand. Mark that point. I think that is where you bottom strap is supposed to go. Some one else will have to verify that though.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Llewellen:

Actually, what I'm describing is based on reconstructions done by Dr. Helmut Nickel (extrapolated from surviving examples in Marburg, based on the placement of rivet heads and leather fragments) in his book Der mittelalter Reiterschild des Abendlands, (University of Berlin, 1958). It was Dr. Nickel's PhD theses. At least three of the shields mentioned were trimmed-down kites without bosses. The stapping and handles were placed on the shield in a variety of ways, but the most common was the way I described.

More later,


[This message has been edited by Templar Bob/De Tyre (edited 03-15-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Templar Bob/De Tyre (edited 03-15-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Templar Bob/De Tyre (edited 03-15-2001).]

Ok I should also add what kind of shield would a 1460ish foot soldier use? Would it be the standard shield shape, a heater, or a kite?

Greetings,


I stand corrected!!

I got my reference from an armourer not to far from here. Truehearth Armouries. He was explaining how to balance a local guys kite. I asked about hanging it like you said, but he said that wouldn't work.

Maybe we are misundertanding each other when it comes to what a kite looks like. Please explain.

Llywelyn

------------------
Stay open minded, but not so open minded that your brains fall out.

------

I am neater with a 5lbs. cross pein than with a ball point pen!

A kite shield as I understand it, is like what is considered a Norman shield.

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It is better to die, than to live without killing. -Afar proverb

Marc Carlson has an article on his website which shows a breakdown of shield and rivet patterns on kite shields from the Bayeux tapestry.

It's at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/history/shield.txt

-Edward

If you do a bit of searching you will find a photo of the back of my kite. It shows the strapping pretty well. I'd repost the photo but can't find it on my hard drive at the moment.

Dan

All of the reconstruction kites I have seen to date (used by viking, saxon, and norman re-enactment groups in the UK) incorporate a center-grip boss and/or a four-square strapping -- a large square of somewhat loose (not adjustable, as far as I can tell) that the arm slips into. The "square" formed by the four straps is oriented perpindicular and parrallel to the longest line of the shield ("per pale", in heraldic terms).

Hope this helps... -c-

I have my sheild strapped in a box pattern. There are four leather straps making a box. This allows for 6 different ways to "handle" the shield, but it is not as rigid as a handle, so it takes some getting used to. with this type of strapping - you can grip it in the typical angle - which works great for regualr tourney style, or straight up and down - which works better for on the shield wall. The 3rd is straight across - which would have an advantage on horse back, but for sca i don't know what it would be good for - but i intend to play with it some. I am thinking it would be good for fighting someone who is opposite handed from you, as it will help kick the point over to the other side of your body - how ever it will make throwing your shots a little weird.

Oh, and i get 6 ways because all three of those can be used either right or left handed without changing the configuration of the strapping.

I have also seen pictures of some stapped with leather straps and buckled- 3 straps - all running horizontal. I don't know how that would do though. In the day, i can see where it would be great - you could hold it in such a way as to swing your shield like a fist and be offensive with it, rather than defensive like SCA combat calls for.

my two cents.


In Service,
Aidan

just for illustration this represents more clearly the "box" or square pattern that has been mentioned [img]http://montecrist0.tripod.com/escudo.jpg[/img]

cheers.
C.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by montecristo:
<B>just for illustration this represents more clearly the "box" or square pattern that has been mentioned
cheers.
C.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks!! Thats what I was talking about!! that would then be padded right?

yup, thats how mine is done.... works great after you get used to it

Just thought I'd stick my nose in again --

Y'all do realise that the illustration is of a centergrip.
Right?
You grasp two parallel straps with your fist.

The version with the third strap, you put your arm through the third strap.

------------------
Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)

doh!

It may be used that way, but I've seen historical images of that box layout being used to strap the arm vertically as well

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Norman:
<B>Footmen used them all the time.

As I understood it, the Earlier Center-Boss Kites are center grips,
the later are something else.

I've only seen the inside of the center grips.
The center grip is not just a Door-handle type thing --
It is two leather straps mounted on rings (if you find Turkish, Persian, Indian round shields on E-bay where they show the inside -- it's just like that)
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that it?

[img]http://www.pics-plus.com/roger/mvc-024s.jpg[/img]

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Where are the reasons
That once stood out so clear?
In a haze of compromise
They all seem to disappear

Steel Weaver --
No -

It's like the "box design" picture posted above.
Where did you get the photo?
I'm guessing that's just strapped wrong.

Brodir --
Are you sure those were images contemporary with the use of the shield as opposed to 19th century reconsructions??

------------------
Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)