Hardened Leather Gauntlet as Alternative to Basket Hilt

[Ignatius]

Hello all

I am looking for a pattern for a one piece wax hardened leather gauntlet to use as an alternative to a basket hilt. I saw one being used with a d style guard during a tournament and was unable to get a close look at it to see the exact construction. I am hoping someone here has a pictures or a pattern i could use.

[wcallen]

"Carlysle" on the AA made some of these back in the 80's. He probably still has the pattern lying around. I might even have it.

Wade

[losthelm]

I rember seeing one pair at inspection point that looked decent.
They where basically Demi gauntlets with an C shaped bit formed from a single piece of leather.
The C shape I think was laced on a little loose for articulation.
The v darts that pulled the c into shape where Vs maybe 3/4-1.25 long then stitched at hardened.

I'm not sure if it was water baked, resin, or other method.

[Konstantin the Red]

Welcome and well come, Ignatius.

Don't use wax. Water harden. That works better. Nearly any shape of pattern for metal will do for hardened leather too; you can even dish the stuff before hardening it. Water hardening (Searchbutton it on-site if you haven't already) will also be lighter -- out on your hands, every superfluous ounce is an enemy to the speed of your sword. Wax also softens in hot sun. Don't use wax, except as a surface sealer.

Are you doing this because metal gaunts are a) too hard to work and you've got tools for working leather, b) it's a challenging leathercraft project and thus intriguing; c) can't afford to buy a pair ready-made and already have the leather, d) just hate baskets for reason of persona etc. despite how they balance a sword all by themselves, the way a single or doubled knucklebow wouldn't have the mass to do? Usually demis in leather are made in two pieces, metacarpal and cuff, glued and stitched together stoutly at the wrist to make them one. You seem to be looking at finger coverage too.

I'm trying to follow your whys and wherefores. The serious alternative to the metal basket is the metal gauntlet. For that matter, a mixed light-metal-and-hardened-leather gaunt too.

[Ignatius]

Well...I am doing this because I can't get the proper wrist movement with a demi/basket hilt combination. I have tried a metal gauntlet and found the weight to be inhibiting.

[Konstantin the Red]

Try a better-built metal gaunt before you give up on them: yours was, simply put, built too damn heavy. At least for you. A loaner piece? The proper sort of weight with a metal mitt isn't going to be very different from a comparably strong mitt in heavy-ounce hardened leather.

I think Darkwood Armory mentions the weight of their gauntlet pairs. They use heat-treated spring steel and they're expensive as bloody 'ell. And they will shelter your fingers superbly in any weapon-form. Mighty good for the twohanded swords and all polearms.

I'm rather shocked; I have to ask what the devil you think you have to do with a sword that a demigaunt plus basket would impede? (Fourteenth-century hourglasses, I'm told, get in the way of SCA flexed-wrist sword tactics -- suggests there's other ways to win with a sword, doesn't it?) Seems one question leads right to another. Baskets don't have to come in just one model -- and they didn't come in only one degree of coverage. Check the early seventeenth century, for example in Oakeshott's European Weapons and Armour.

Time to grow stronger -- and to master some technique. Have you learned a proper snap? These power right through the mass of a metal mitt -- because all the power is generated elsewhere than the arm. It's all in the leg and in the little old rotation of the hip and the torso. (It's amazing how much wallop five inches of hip rotation generates at the sword's center of percussion.) The arm delivers only a bit of the push -- primarily it aims and guides the blade. Swordside leg and torso are simply too powerful to give a darn about some ounces extra in a mitt.

[Cygnus]

Torvaldr makes leather guantlets. Here is a link to his website.

http://www.skaldic.com/arm-gaunt.htm

I've never tried a pair myself, but I know several people who have. I prefer a basket hilt with a demi. I know that fighting against your armor can be very frustrating. If your basket, demi-guantlet and arm armor are well-designed and well-matched there should be no binding in any range of motion.

[Konstantin the Red]

@Ignatius: Anybody who studied karate and knows what a reverse punch is can execute a Bellatrix style snap shot: it is the mechanics of a reverse punch with the addition of a club in your hand to do the hitting with.

@Cygnus: Welcome and well come to the Archive.

It's very true both the demi and the basket hilt have to fit well enough -- neither one too large. Back in the day there were some altogether immense baskets (of very open design) intended to reinforce over hockey gloves. Established habit, I guess. Wasn't all that popular.

Note that some baskets get built with what amounts to a cutaway opening things up back at the pommel end. Perhaps this is the model you'd like?