The Armour Archive

I am making a pair of arms and thighs for SCA combat, consisting of plastic lames sewn between two layers of cloth. Anyone know what kind(s) of fabrics would be best for at least the outer layer of cloth so that it will stand-up to the abuse of combat? I was thinking duck cloth, but while I know it is rather strong and durable, I'm kind of thinking that might be a bit too thick.

More than anything, duck cloth just doesn't breathe...a little more than a synthetic fabric like polyester, but not much. Seeing as how you're living in the humid heat, you'd be better off with a linen canvas.

http://www.fabrics-store.com/

7oz. weight would work well. They also sell 8 and some 10oz, if you're really concerned. It'll still breathe better than duck cloth. My first surcoat was made of duck cloth...

Mulling it over, a couple points come to mind: if you can't get linen canvas -- hempen canvas was also done as far as we know from documentation, but that stuff's hard to find -- then two layers of fairly heavy linen cloth, ordinary broadcloth weave or twilled, for the outside, along with one layer for the inside. Two outer layers will do a lot for lengthening the pieces' service life. In linen, they won't hold a lot of heat in on you either.

The plastic splints will behave like insulators as much as they can, since they aren't a continuous layer, but they'll try. In your humidity, some effort at increasing ventilation may be wanted to compensate: eyelets, buttonholing. Aluminum splints of the same dimensions will try and radiate built up heat away off you, but aren't quite as launderable. Splints you can take out of the whole thing make laundering the piece convenient, if that is a design consideration.

Duck is great stuff for armor bags if you feel ambitious enough to craft your own, special. It is a strong, thick fabric, suited to packing armor pieces so they don't scratch each other up.

But aside from something like that, leave duck to aikido and judo gis, where they pack all that strength into one layer so's to throw big strong heavy men around all afternoon with no worries! The stuff is great for that too -- and even the judoka tend to minimize as best as may be practical the part of the gi jacket made of duck. You can get mighty sweaty.

Well, I like the idea of adding some ventilation with the lames; I was thinking of slightly-loosely holding the lames together with some thin nylon string running through tiny holes, before sewing them between the cloth. I was looking at twill and broadcloth, I just wasn't sure if it was too thin and light weight for what I need, but thanks. As for cleaning them, i was not really too concerned with cleaning them other than simply hosing them down every-so-often (though i will have stainless steel cops sewn in too), so i was also thinking of a darker color, like a dark tan or greyish color, something that would not show staining too well.

Thanks for the help!

Would you like to thong the cops onto the cuisses' bottom ends using an intermediary pad, leather behind the cop and stuffed with a bit of soft stuff, in provable 14th century style (about the middle third of the 14th)? Your end result could look completely like that century's gamboised cuisses if you want it to. Though it sounds like it's going to be hidden under something. The thonged-on pad takes care of all articulation.

I can also imagine things like very slightly curving the long edges of the splints inward, so the splints touch at their ends but leave a bit of space between them in the middle -- a sort of ) ( shape but much less deeply curved, ending up looking like some kind of serifed capital I, a bit wider at the top and bottom than in the middle of each splint. Buttonholing between splints probably wouldn't give enough benefit to be worth the effort since you're already sewing two or three layers of cloth right together right there, making an absolutely minimum possible thickness. I can imagine running a row of small holes down each splint's centerline, but I think you'd only want small holes to not compromise the splints' strength. Main thing is still that linen fabric and its nice wicking properties.

I'd be inclined to go with broadcloth weave for the inner lining and the mid-layer over the splints, then a twilled weave for the outer shell if you opt for three layers of mid-weight cloth over two of heavy. Twill wears pretty hard. Guess it's early days yet.

If it's me, I'm inclined to put two or three splints round to the inside and above each knee, for those inside the knee trick-shots. These I'd only apply to the lower half or third of the thigh, as the most vulnerable place of the inner thigh.

I've also seen an effigial example now of the inside of such cuisses being closed by lacing them shut -- no chance of uncomfortable or snagging lumpiness, as well as being simple and very economical to do.

The example is on Sir Richard Pembridge's tomb effigy. They're fastened like this fellow van Drakenborch's greaves and if you click on the < back-arrow at the left of the Flickr gallery you will get to Sir Richard's tomb effigy after some pix between. Looks like his cuisses were probably a base layer of cuirbouilli, with a reinforcing frontal cuisse plate of steel over them. Funny system against sharps; maybe it was the budget model? It'd be damned durable against sticks, just as your splint ones would.

I plan to make the leg armor look like a pair of gamboised cuisses; the lames and cop will be sewn between two layers of cloth, with padding glued to the inside of the cops before being sewn in, and then a leather disc over the knee, and lacing up the back. Also, I will have a pair of knee-high boots covered in mail, laced up the back, with the lacing extending into the top row of rings so they can be cinched up below the knees, with thongs at the top to attach to the knees to hold them in place.

I was looking at twill, broadcloth, and even duck cloth, though I feel the duck cloth is a bit too thick.

Here is the most recent version of my designs:
Boots covered in mail, with lacing up the back to look like the laced-up mail chauses, with the ends of the lacing both going through the top row of mail so they can be cinched up at the top. There will be a pair of short thongs at the top to attach to the bottom of the knees to hold them in place.

The thighs and knees will consist of plastic lames and steel cops sewn between two layers of cloth, laced up in the back, and with a leather disc sewn to the front of the knees so they look like a pair of gamboised cuisses.

The arms will be much the same and made to look like the sleeves of a gambeson, with a nylon strap coming across the inside of the elbow for added security for keeping the cops completely covering the elbows at all times, and nylon straps sewn into the upper arm for added strength; and the upper arm will be closed, so I just slip my arm in. The forearms will have a pair of velcro straps to tighten around the arm, and a strap at the top to attach them to D-rings on the sleeves of the undertunic, which should help keep the arms from slipping down and restricting wrist movement.

I will be keeping the rest of my current suit; leather coat of plates (it is more like a kidney-belt with some chest protection), mail half-shirt (though my current one has short sleeves, so I may make another with longer sleeves), a simple gorget, and helmet, and my fighting surcoat to go over it all.

Owen,

I know exactly what you are dealing with.

For the internal layer, I recommend heavy linen or a medium weight canvas (natural).

For the external layer, you have more options. Heavy Denim, heavy brushed denim, canvas linen, all of these are pretty hearty and breath (at varying amounts).

Good Luck!

Hi,

I wouldn't go with the fabric store 10 oz.. I have had it and I personally do not think it is canvas.

This is linnen canvas

http://www.matuls.pl/miniaturki_pic/pic ... g=en&IDP=1
http://www.matuls.pl/index.php?IDP=1&Ln ... tegoria=57

Cheers,

Jan

I'd still go with lacing run up the inside of the thigh, not the back -- especially if you find you have to loosen the lacing to get them on -- much easier to reach then. I think Sir Richard Pembridge had some idea what he was doing, and I don't think you'd have to deny yourself that for all that you're late twelfth and he latter fourteenth centuries.

So you are wholly concealing every part of the legharness? I'd usually say to leave the kneecop public, especially if the harness is 14th-c. -- though this one is not? Your harness is still that Norman-helmeted Crusades rig, correct?

Yeah, this is still the overall appearance, but just changing the arms and legs, getting rid of the articulated elbows/knees that are not Third Crusade accurate; and adding an undertunic, various examples I have seen show a long tunic under the mail shirt.

Here is an illustration I just finished creating, of the layers of my planned armor. This is what I hope to achieve with the overall appearance. This one is using my current mail half-shirt, but I will most likely make one with longer sleeves; probably alternate using one or the other whenever I feel like it.