Considering the Reproduction of Sir John de Melsa's Helmet

[boris_]

I am planning on replacing my barbute with something more period to my kit, roomier, 4130er, thicker and with interchangeable visors. My current kit is documented around 1370s England (My goal is for the kit to pass the reqs of the steel leagues)
Today I stumbled unto the Helmet of Sir John de Melsa.
here are some the images I found
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/449515606533923920/ (the bottom)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/44538/44 ... 4538-h.htm (fig 13)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/44538/44 ... _fig13.jpg
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xt/142015 ... %7C837&s=1
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/532691462144788328/

So is this a great bascinet? I could have sworn those came later
What would this helmet look like completed ? (I have my guess, but it would help me to see the work of a better drafter then I)
What Visor would work with it? I am thinking about a "griffon" type for the visor that would be period (the others being perf plate and a bar grill) would that work?
Any advice on pattering it out would be appreciated as I am even more of a noob in patterning then I am in making armor (thank god I have the help that I do)

Any other thoughts or advice would be welcome as well.

[Amanda M]

When I was researching the plow shaped visor I considered this helmet because it is a bit strangle for a bascinet. I couldn't see any way to attach an aventail, and the back of the helm suggested to me some kind of great bascinet as well. I am interested in seeing comments on this! The only thing I felt like I could definitively say about the visor is it would be a side pivot. But what kind?

[Mac]

So is this a great bascinet? I could have sworn those came later

Boris,

It is a great bascinet, and you are right to think that 1370 is too early for them. One would not expect this helmet skull to be earlier than the first decade of the 15th C, or perhaps a bit later. I suppose that means that something is wrong with the attribution to Sir John de Melsa, or his death date.

Mac

[Tom B.]

So is this a great bascinet? I could have sworn those came later

Boris,

It is a great bascinet, and you are right to think that 1370 is too early for them. One would not expect this helmet skull to be earlier than the first decade of the 15th C, or perhaps a bit later. I suppose that means that something is wrong with the attribution to Sir John de Melsa, or his death date.

Mac

I wonder if "from the tomb" means it was a funerary achievement sort of item.
If so it could have easily been added later.

[Mac]

A search for Sir John de Malsa effigy brings up this page https://books.google.com/books?id=FFUQA ... gy&f=false from Handbook for Yorkshire, E. Stanford, 1904. In it, there is a statement that the helmet over the monument is later. So, at least as early as 1904 the helmet was known to have postdated the effigy. I guess it's time for the good folks at the RA(?) to change the label to something that does not perpetuate the confusion.


Mac

[Mac]

On page 493 of the Exhibition of Helmets and Mail, De Cosson and Burgess, 1880. https://books.google.com/books?id=ZH_QA ... il&f=false there is a description of the helmet and its history. The helmet had been used as a coal scuttle in the 1850s. By 1879 it had been "replaced" above the effigy of Sir John.


Mac