The Armour Archive

I bought one of these last week, and it arrived today.


http://www.grizzly.com/products/Benchto ... eel/T25101


A hundred bucks cheaper than the exact same thing on Ebay, and I am a happy badger.

I've assembled it and done some small test work with it so far.

My thoughts:

Wheels need some shimming.
Some of the contour wheels are rather narrow, and the top wheel can drift to where it does not make proper contact.
Fender washer should do fine for shims. It doesn't need much.

The wheel is rated for up to 16 gauge steel, and it does not seem to lend itself to thicker stuff very well.
It did some amazing smoothing on an 18 gauge vambrace I am working on, and I am looking forward to seeing what it does to 16 gauge greaves.

I've also started using it on a 16 gauge globose breastplate.
Its working, but slowly.
I gather it takes several series of passes to really work all the bumps out; and I'll do updates and some pics when I have something thats worth taking pics of.

My impression so far, is that its great for the grunt work on planishing on large pieces.
But not a substitute for the job.

Some minor planishing will still be required...But it really seems to cut the workload down a LOT.

I can also use it late at night, when the sound of hammering annoys the neighbors, and brings men in blue uniforms around asking embarrassing questions....
However, being able to planish at night means cooler temperatures as summer approaches, and no work can be done in the daytime from heat issues.
I am also much more creative and have more energy at night...Years of working graveyard shifts have made me a natural nightowl.
So that is a major benefit for me.

The frame of the wheel clamps into my bench vice.
It was apparently designed mostly to be clamped like this for support.
I may make a sturdier bench attachment, but this works for now.

The frame doesn't feel flimsy- But its definitely not as strong as I'd like it to be.
For the price, I'm willing to modify it later as I get a feel for what could be improved.

Its small.
It takes up little room, and I can hang it from hooks on the wall of the garage when I am not using it.
This was a huge factor in my decision to buy one, as floor space in my garage is extremely limited.

I do intend at some point to try the bungie bowling ball trick for dishing- But there is no good place for me to set up such a system.
For me to try that, I need to build a sturdy, but completely collapsible frame that can be taken down and stored when not in use.

I even have a bowling ball from the salvation army for the purpose.
Cost me all of $2, and I use it for a planishing stake already.
It works well for that, by the way.
I just set it into the end of a 6 inch pipe cutoff for a base.

I'll try out the english wheel for a week or so as time permits, and update this post later.


-Badger-

Ironbadger wrote:I do intend at some point to try the bungie bowling ball trick for dishing- But there is no good place for me to set up such a system.
For me to try that, I need to build a sturdy, but completely collapsible frame that can be taken down and stored when not in use.

A demountable tripod of 4x4 might be the ticket.

Or one of curved 3" steel pipe. Curved outward so you have room to work inside the tripod, between two of its legs. Otherwise, you'd need to saw out something in long enough wood/plywood to make bowed legs with some elbow room between them.

But let's explore that other situation: Limited space in garage, aye. Joists overhead? Finished ceiling? Is there a driveway? With driveway and joists, why not park the car on the driveway and have the bowling ball basherizer slung from a hook screwed into a joist by a bungee cord? I don't think I have a complete picture of the obstacles here.

Car out on driveway if you've got one, hook bungee to overhead hook, work on metal with a dishing bowl, doughnut, or stump. Take everything down but the overhead hook when done and put the car back in the garage.

Very encouraging to hear this English wheel handles up to 16ga mild satisfactorily; I'd been left with the idea those things pretty much quit at about 20 gauge.

The condo belongs to my room mate, who is somewhat neurotic by nature, and who is easily freaked out by the idea of any form of permanent modification to his house.
"Permanent" is defined in his mind as anything that leaves marks in surfaces, down to pinholes from thumbtacks....I shit you not.

He is definitely freaked out by the idea of my driving a screweye into the overhead main beam of the garage to hang a bungie cord from.

Any tools I want to get my hand on must be freestanding, collapsible, and easily stored away to avoid tripping his neurosis issues and paranoia over damaging his house.
(Think Les Nesman the news guy from the old WKRP in Cincinnati TV sitcom and you have a decent idea of what my room mate can be like...No joke.)

Even the idea of my setting up a completely safe and properly safety secured oxy acetylene torch made him freak out all over the place in fear I'd burn the house down...And he knows how safety minded I am with tools and fire related issues.

So a knockdown frame for a bungie ball is the only acceptable solution, just to maintain peace in the household.
And I am still fighting with him over my getting a gas welder.

-Badger-

Konstantin the Red wrote:

Ironbadger wrote:I do intend at some point to try the bungie bowling
ball trick for dishing- But there is no good place for me to set up such a system.
For me to try that, I need to build a sturdy, but completely collapsible frame that can be taken down and stored when not in use.

But let's explore that other situation: Limited space in garage, aye. Joists overhead? Finished ceiling? Is there a driveway? With driveway and joists, why not park the car on the driveway and have the bowling ball basherizer slung from a hook screwed into a joist by a bungee cord? I don't think I have a complete picture of the obstacles here.


Very encouraging to hear this English wheel handles up to 16ga mild satisfactorily; I'd been left with the idea those things pretty much quit at about 20 gauge.

Very encouraging to hear this English wheel handles up to 16ga mild satisfactorily; I'd been left with the idea those things pretty much quit at about 20 gauge.


Its says rated for 16 gauge.
It definitely works in up to that thickness, with some effort.

Seems to like 18 gauge more, and I really haven't had more than an hour or so to play with it yet.

It also makes for a weird surface finish- Hard to describe, but almost like a streaky sanded surface?

For thinner steel where I want to keep sanding to a minimum, its looking promising.

I'll have more info when I've finished a few pieces.

-Badger-

Have you thought about a bolt-on stiffening beam in the center? Unless you are running a cuisse through it sideways (in which case you can also turn the wheels 90 degrees) you can probably stiffen it up a lot with a 2nd vertical beam closer to the work surface. That should make it much stronger for knees, elbows and small stuff.

Watch your fingers!

Wow -- that's one hard bargain in a roomie. He was there first, with his name on the paperwork. And I suppose on the cleaning deposit? Guess he wouldn't attach bookshelves to the wall either; sounds like freestanding bookcases are the only way. So, narrow things can fall behind the bookcases, into the bargain. Not that I'm gonna hate on the things; they just have that weakness. Things get a lot simpler when people share a house because they share a hobby, which is how it was for me.

Streaky would be a good description, yeah. A wheel will process the steel sheet in very shallow, very broad grooves, less marked than spin marks on a spun top, if you've ever seen one of those. But roughly the same thing goes on with working it with a wheel, just subtler. Moving metal here and there by tiny degrees. Naturally it would like 18ga on down all the better than metal near its max capacity. I gather a wheel is effective on the middle of a metal piece, but barely can touch the edges; you may expect to need sacrifice edges kind of like the edges of shoe uppers, where the tacks go to nail the leather to the last.

Sean's bolt-on post, I believe, crosses the C of the frame making a cents sign.

I have the Harbor Junk version which actually works quite well. I was surprised. It works on .040 1050 and makes nice smooth curves: The downside is that it--like all English Wheel work that is not on .025 aluminum--is slow. Dreadfully slow for the impatient among us. I think smoothing the roughed out curves of breastplates, greaves etc is it's forte. The upside is those pesky neighbors and men in blue m(or grey, or black) don't come calling at 11 pm!

So, you want, like, a shop TV or music system, while you just Zen-zone your way through a plate piece. Would you then recommend doing your primary shaping with a weighted-rawhide mallet like the larger Garland Mfg models to begin smooth and get smoother?

Hmm. He Who Is Kinda Neurotic is okay with hooks in walls at least for storage of equipment... just noticed that.

I've done my initial dishing with my 4 pound sledge dishing hammer.
I got a rawhide mallet after I did the shaping on my current breastplate project, so that will be my method of choice for the next one, and the backplate.

Music can help or hinder my concentration when I am working.
Sometimes I listen to music when working, but usually I do not.
I can become what a friend described as "frighteningly concentrated" on what I am doing, and so into it that I become utterly oblivious to the passage of time.

I've worked on knives where I cut myself, knew I had cut myself, and only stopped to treat the wound when I realized there was so much blood getting on the work that I could not see what I was doing through the red sludge covering the work...

Music can sometimes distract me enough that I become more prone to accidental injury.
So I usually work in silence.

-Badger-

Konstantin the Red wrote:So, you want, like, a shop TV or music system, while you just Zen-zone your way through a plate piece. Would you then recommend doing your primary shaping with a weighted-rawhide mallet like the larger Garland Mfg models to begin smooth and get smoother?

Yes.
Because HE put the hooks up...

If I do it, he becomes neurotically paranoid.

-Badger-

Konstantin the Red wrote:Hmm. He Who Is Kinda Neurotic is okay with hooks in walls at least for storage of equipment... just noticed that.

If you can find one of these used at a swap meet, they are pretty hefty:

Buying them new is a little costly.

So, hold on, a buck 29 and it comes with all the wheels?

Ironbadger, here is the most important question:

Will the lower anvil holder rotate 90 degrees?

The biggest problem with ANY English Wheel is that they always manufacture them with the upper anvil at 90 degrees to the frame. The amount of force required to move the upper and lower dies apart is a fraction of what it could be, because the whole frame only needs to torque like 0.01" to relieve any pressure the two wheels are putting on each other. They'll just get out of alignment.

If the upper and lower wheels are inline with the frame, then you're taking advantage of the frame's stiffness. There are no lateral forces involved so the side-to-side stiffness isn't even a factor.

So if the lower anvil cradle can rotate, then I'll be ordering one and cutting off the upper wheel and repositioning it.

The lower wheel post is a square tube section, and can be put in either position, I believe.

I'll go confirm it for you in a bit, but there were no special shapes or keys to make it align one way only that I remember from assembling it- Simply two square tubing sections for the lower anvil holder and the housing it went into.

Thanks for that tip on turning the wheels 90 degrees though.
I am rather sure I can alter it at some point to take advantage of that.

And yes- comes with 7 anvils and the top unit, and all feel quite substantial, solid, and heavy.


-Badger-

schreiber wrote:So, hold on, a buck 29 and it comes with all the wheels?

Ironbadger, here is the most important question:

Will the lower anvil holder rotate 90 degrees?

The biggest problem with ANY English Wheel is that they always manufacture them with the upper anvil at 90 degrees to the frame. The amount of force required to move the upper and lower dies apart is a fraction of what it could be, because the whole frame only needs to torque like 0.01" to relieve any pressure the two wheels are putting on each other. They'll just get out of alignment.

If the upper and lower wheels are inline with the frame, then you're taking advantage of the frame's stiffness. There are no lateral forces involved so the side-to-side stiffness isn't even a factor.

So if the lower anvil cradle can rotate, then I'll be ordering one and cutting off the upper wheel and repositioning it.

Confirmed.
Rotates 90 degrees with no hassles, and fits the same as its normal alignment.

I forgot, but I shimmed the top anvil the day I got it with a large fender washer I had lying around, and that took all the loose play out of it.
Theres a little resistance to turning, but I plan to polish that washer at some point, and the current resistance is barely noticeable.

I'm thinking that I can maybe get all the lower play out of it by taping a strip of something like 22 or 28 gauge stainless steel to the lower anvil post on one side to tighten it a hair.
Its not bad right now- Just jiggles a bit.
More of a minor annoyance than an issue, as it does not seem to affect the function while I am using it.
But it could be tightened a tiny little smidge.

I also managed to clumsily drop the top anvil onto the concrete garage floor.
I checked it after very carefully, and there are no dings or scratches, so the steel is tempered rather hard.



-Badger-