Need help making an early 15thC apron of mail

[der soldat]

I'm trying to figure out some things about those mail aprons you see in german art.
First, is there a proper period name for these?

Second,how do they hold their shape and not bunch up like some fantasy mail loincloth? were they shaped like a rectangle or more like a trapezoid, tailored to be wider at the bottom or possably attached to a lining

Third,how would they have been worn, attatched to a belt, pointed to arming garments or riveted/sewn directly to the torso armour?

[Ernst]

I'm not a student of 15th century German texts, so I don't know what they called it. There is a later English reference:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/hist-m ... /pp292-302 (footnote 6)

John Whytewood. The coste off the harnessynge of a man. In primis, a jaeke with slevys, viiis. Item, a apurne and a gurgytte of mayle, iis. Item, ii. swyrdys, vs. iiiid. Item, ii. dagars, xiid. Item, ii. swyrd gurdyls, vid. Item, a salett, iis. Item, a hawbert, xvid. Item, for the scorynge of the salett and the mayle, xiid. Item, a shotynge glove, iid. Item, a braser, id. Item, for v. yardys and a halfe of whyte clothe, pryce the yard, xiiid., summa vs. xid. ob. Item, for bokulles and thinges for the brygtreyers (?), iid. Summa, xxviis. vid. ob.

There's likely more than one way to do this, so I wouldn't expect it to alway be done the same way. The mail could be attached to a belt, or the brastplate, or sewn or pointed to the fabric beneath. I suspect a trapezoidal shape would be better, but any such piece which may be in a museum is likely labelled "fragment of mail".

[der soldat]

Ah, english will do fine, thank you
I'm thinking of trying rows five rings tall with expantion rings at the bottom like I'm making a section of a mantle.
Should I spread the expanding rings evenly throughout,say by placing them every five in the expanding rows or would it be better to consntrate them in one area like the sides or somewere else?.

Once I've got a trapezoid I'll sew it to a peiece of leather and attatch it to my breastplate, hopfully having it the length of the bottom edge curved around the hips will help hold its shape.

Sorry if I'm asking obvious questions, its been over a decade since I last assembled mail and I always had trouble figuring out the whole expanding/contracting thing to begin with.
Plus it really killed my hands the first time round so I'd like to figure this out on paper first and do as little hands on experimenting as possible.

[Konstantin the Red]

Structurally strengthwise and flexibility wise there is nothing to choose between an array of expansions throughout or concentrating the expansions into triangular expansion zones and doing it that way.

Historically, it is to a degree most likely they would have used expansion zones interspersed with rectangles of plain weave 4-in-1 mail. But only most likely; there was nothing to stop them making the entire thing an array of less densely distributed expansions like the way a coif's cowl or a camail would be assembled. There are probably rather overlooked examples of each method in Europe's collections. It would take a dedicated outfit like the Mail Research Society to unearth any.

This sort of piece is called a fauld or mail fauld in English.

How A Man Schall Be Armed At Hys Ease has an illustration of a mail-fauld essentially having one or two, maybe more, V shaped "flies" (but no flap) in the upper edge of the flaring skirt of the thing, which allow stepping into the fauld like into a pair of shorts, pulling it up, and the V's laced shut and the whole pointed to the skirts of the gambeson, with the breast and back and the shoulders and arms yet to come. The illustration shows a man kneeling to lace the fauld into place once the gamby is on.

I wouldn't attach it to either breast or back, and that scheme would call for attaching a unitary mail fauld to both pieces together. Which turns it all into a PITA to actually get into, which is what you don't want. Separate faulds are far more convenient. You can point that thing to your foundation, your armyng-cote, to rise as high in the waist as ever you need. Overlaying it with an articulated steel fauld in front and back halves, fifteenth century style, well, the articulated half hoops fauld may attach on vertical leathers to some breasts and backs. Permanently attached faulds are often associated with breasts and backs that open on hinges, and the articulated fauld may do so too -- with the mail fauld under it being a separate component put on separately. Or the plate fauld too may be resolutely independent of the breast and the back, possibly suspended from a very flat belt about the waist to carry it that likely laces shut if it exists at all. Or belt plus suspenders.

While certain design shortcuts of this kind became evident in the seventeenth century and latest sixteenth, I'd be chary of attaching a mail fauld straight onto plate torso pieces. If effigial evidence proves me wrong, that too is good to know.

*******MAIL BITS******

Handkilling when butting up some mail -- because this is really only a symptom that crops up making butted stuff -- can be avoided if you give your flesh, tendon and bone some time to adapt. The first three days are about the roughest, the second three days rather less rough.

• a) This is steel wire you're bending up. Use *enough* pliers for the leverage.
  b) 9" slipjoint or linesmen's pliers are about the best tools you will find for mail down to as small as 1/4" ID.
  c) You can bend half the links you'll use open if you stretch half of your link coils out, pulling on either end. 50 to 150 links opened in one single second; this only works with butted but it saves time.
  d) Worth its own item in List: stow the preopened links separately; they tangle, and how! Pick them out of the can in clumps and thump the clump on your worktable to get loose opened links to work with.
  e) You're only going to be good for an hour of mailling the day you start. Don't expect more. The moment soreness or twingeing begin, down tools. Your palms must now rest overnight and recover.
  f) If soreness remains into the next day, wait until it goes away. Only then take another hour of weaving mail.
  g)The first three days are about an hour of mailling apiece; again, down tools at the first sign of soreness so your hands won't need a lot of recovery.
  h) After three days @ one hour, extend it to about an hour fifteen or twenty -- another two or three days. Then you can extend longer. Give your palms time to adapt. They'll be tougher soon enough and stop getting sore; it's just that you're presently starting from scratch.

Riveted mailmaking doesn't even use pairs of pliers, as the flattened-out links are just snapped together with fingers. Then you get the fun of manipulating eensy rivets.

[der soldat]

I dont think iv'e explaned what I mean very well.
I'm talking about front only mail aprons worn in place of a plate fauld on stand alone breastplates in germany 1400-1420, not a full wrap around faulds/paunces
As far as I can see these are offten shown with a civilian style coat or houppelande between the breatplate and lower layers of mail/ arming garments. thats why I was concidering direct attachment to the armour.
(I'm aware the coat/houppelande can offten also be a padded arming garment but this dosen't allways appear to be the case)

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4983/15498/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4983/15495/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4983/15505/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4831/13784/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4905/14557/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/5462/18350/
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/412/20127 ... 709f_b.jpg

[Mac]

If I were going to make one of these I would have the trapezoidal shape come from expansion in the body of the mail, rather than addition to the edges. Two expansion rings every forth row should be about right. If the expansions were scattered (rather than in columns) it would look nicer. On the other hand, if you need to put them in columns to make the project manageable, then they might be best if located about 1/3 of the way from the side edges.

If the apron were attached to a sort of belt, it would be convenient to wear, but it would never line up with the waist of the breastplate. There would either be a wasteful overlap, or a gap. I think your best bet is to just attach it to the breast. If you do that by sewing it to a leather or fabric strap on the inside of the breast, make sure that the mail underlaps the plate so that there is no gap in defense.

The most likely fault will be that the mail apron will not want to hang straight down on the sides. That's just the way mail is. A fabric lining will mitigate that to a large extent, but I'd try it without the lining first.

Mac

[Tom B.]

I made one of these for a customer a few months back.

It was going to be worn over a mail shirt and under a solid breastplate.
I attached it to a belt to be buckled in the back.
Due to my client's budget limitations I went with the simplest approach.
A simple trapezoid without any expansions in the body.
There was a small rectangular section at the top.
It was sized so that the belt would sit inside the breastplate just above the waist.
Note that the width of the mail at the top was a bit excessive in my opinion per the client's request.
I did find that if the top width was around 50%+ of the waist circumference the vertical side edges behaved better than I had expected.

Click here for photo

[Ernst]

At least one point in favor of attaching the mail apron to a belt, rather than the breastplate can be readily seen. Notice in this miniature how the mail extends past the rear of the breastplate, indicating it must be on a belt or fastened to the garment beneath.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/5462/18350/

[Mac]

It could be attached to the waist belt of the breastplate itself.


Mac