1580's Augsburg Cuirass

[Johann ColdIron]

As I alluded to in another thread I got the stuff back from Heat Treat very quickly. Lucked out that the oven was literally hot when my stuff arrived by post last Monday. It was back on my porch THURSDAY. A big shout out to Scott and Leslie of Darkwood Armory for their incredible turnaround.



Everything came back in good shape. They knocked off the significant scale with a wire wheel before shipping. Spaulder bracing held perfectly.



Only thing I should have done better was used a bolt to replace the center pin of the vambraces during heat. Both sided of them curled a bit. Turned slightly U shaped instead of circular. The tab end of the door most obviously. Perhaps some backing plates bridging the two sides intersections were in order as well. I underestimated the amount of movement these "small" plates might move and really didn't want to grind off the finished pins.



Thankfully while they are now tempered they do have some ductility left to them. I clamped them back together with c-clamps and gave them a squeeze or two. Then some leather mallet encouragement to go back to round. Worked for the most part but I think the next set will need a slightly different pattern with a little less width on the door at the elbow end.

[Johann ColdIron]

The parts are cleaning up nicely with a wide wire wheel and then a 3M scotch brite wheel Mac suggested for blending in his St Florian thread. Nice tip!



The elbows got no bracing but as far as I can tell didn't move a bit. They were hot raised and got fairly thick in their finished shape. I used these for a couple years in C&T so there are a few battle scars I will need to sand out so they do not catch the eye.



The elbows and vambraces now play well with each other again.



All the parts wire wheeled and scotch brited except the vambraces. That is tonights work and then hopefully leather soon!

[Johann ColdIron]

The Buff leather is in the mail and on the way to me. I've been working on the clean up and polishing of the arm harness parts. Went to 240 on everything. Seems to be a decent finish level that cleans up well with the fine grey 3m scotch brite pads I get from my welding supplier.



A picture of me after being in my dust mask for several hours...my mustache always goes wonky and my beard wont behave...

[Kristoffer]

Wait, so you are actually grinding and polishing it. Are you trying to get Mac to approve?

[Johann ColdIron]

Wait, so you are actually grinding and polishing it. Are you trying to get Mac to approve?

He called it LUMPY! What was I supposed do!


We also have an A&S event coming up that I be showing this at and everyone knows that Armour is supposed to be shiny.

[Johann ColdIron]

Finally got the arm harness and gorget completely ready to leather. Vambraces assembled. Assembly rivet locations filled on all parts. Roofing nails deplated. Steel washers made.

Come on leather!



Also roped the back plate and am now trying to finish off the BP lumps and finalize the shape.

[Kristoffer]

Exciting to see! Also exciting to see what the new nickname will be when lumpy no longer will be suitable.

[Johann ColdIron]

Sometime before the apocalypse I finished the arms. I posted them on display at our Kingdom A&S event in the Buff Leather thread and finally had a second to take some better shots.





During the shut in I have been working from home but have had a bit of time to devote to this project. Spent a lot of time delumping the Back and breast. Some by planishing, some with the belt sander, some by draw-filing and the rest with a sanding stick, manually.

Back was only .050 so there was a lot of care bumping out the surface before final sanding. Lots of sharpie marks.



But much better looking surface when I was done. Not perfect but what is.



Breast Plate started as 14ga so I could be a lot less conservative. Did what I could to slightly curve some of the areas that ended up too straight. I was not aggressive enough in my original raising especially under the center of the arm cutout.

[Johann ColdIron]

Spent a bunch of time fiddling with the Gusset tab fitment. They are a bit of a pain. As far as I can tell you want them to register tight in line with their adjacent hemline with no gaps while moving freely through the arc created by the rotation on the bottom rivet. Means a lot of file here, test file there, test, file again.



But overall the end product seems to work at least on the table and looks decent.





We'll see how it functions once I get it all together and on me

[Otto von Teich]

John, Its looking great! Well done, cant wait to see it all finished and on you.

[Johann ColdIron]

Thanks Otto!

Well, it is not finished but here it is on me in the final testing stages before heat treat. In my snazzy new Doublet made by Tracy Justus.







Overall the fit is not bad. Weight is well distributed on the gorget and the slight padding added to that area by Tracy as called for by Sir John Smythe. Only real discomfort is the wings of the back plate are a bit snug against my ribcage. I will spend some time with a torch and clamps to try and get them to relax a bit.

[Johann ColdIron]

As you can see the gussets when left to slide on their own accord go in and do not return to their extended placement. Hmmm, in the originals I am using for inspiration there are no extra doodads to act on these. There are some with a leather lining strip tied to the gussets or some version of Z spring but not the ones I am using. The gusset has to have some means of return or it might as well not be there.



Only three things come to mind so far. One- the top edge of the back plate is sprung against the top edge of the gusset and acts as the force to keep the gusset in extension. I think I can make that happen but may have to go to steel hinge plates on the sides and over the shoulders to keep these bearing against each other consistently.

Two- Perhaps the pauldron itself acts as the gusset reset and only resets when the leather front articulation strip drags against it?

Three- Hard rivet the bottom rivet of the gusset and let the natural tension reset itself. But it would take a lot of force to displace the 14 ga BP or gusset like that and could get tiring and I think it would still swivel eventually as the rivet wears in and then I would be back where I started with droopy gussets...



Anyone have experience tuning this type of gusset?

Here are some side views. There is about 3/4" overlap of the BP "fauld" flair and the Back "cullet" flair but I am not a fan of how the nestle together. The right side wing plate is a bit high in the front and I am going to adjust it by moving the holes a bit to cant it downwards. Ignore the extra sharpie marks. I had the belt one notch too tight.



This one shows that the angle of the left side plate bottom points up. I did relieve it a bit so that the bottom of the BP has less in the way of it sliding home against the Back. Looks a bit better in person but I think I may have made the classic mistake of marking it up alone and not in relation to the BP. Some do swoop up a bit but I'm considering cutting new side plates to match better if I can't get it to work. I may also be able to recut the bottom edge of the back plate in a slightly higher arc to deemphasize the sides as long as I do not get to close to the rivet locations.



There is also the temptation to trim the cullet plate ends so they no longer sit under the BP. That too would help the BP and Back nestle together better. There are plenty examples of that in originals, especially German Mid 16th Cent. Usually they are cut pretty far back so the intersection cant snip the doublet fabric beneath. Jury is still out on that!

As always comments, criticisms and observations are welcome. Its the only way I get to learn something.

[Scott Martin]

Have you considered mounting the shoulder straps on the *inside* of the breastplate? There was a fashion in the late 15th / early 16th century gussets to mount the straps to the gussets instead of to the breastplate, with a diagonal slot for the rivet so that the tension (weight) of the breast and back pulled the gussets into extension. This won't work on these because they have the "notch" cur for them, but if your shoulder straps are mounted on the inside (on the gusset) then this could still work.

It would look a bit odd, but is probably the easiest solution.

Scott

[Johann ColdIron]

Have you considered mounting the shoulder straps on the *inside* of the breastplate? There was a fashion in the late 15th / early 16th century gussets to mount the straps to the gussets instead of to the breastplate, with a diagonal slot for the rivet so that the tension (weight) of the breast and back pulled the gussets into extension. This won't work on these because they have the "notch" cur for them, but if your shoulder straps are mounted on the inside (on the gusset) then this could still work.

It would look a bit odd, but is probably the easiest solution.

Scott

That is an interesting thought! You are right that there was a habit of mounting the suspension system to the full length style of gusset and that does help that style reset.

I had a fresh look at the ones I am basing this on to see if that could be possible. While I think I could make it work I don't think they did it that way. One the top gusset hole is "always" a slot instead of a single rivet point. It would also take a pretty significant buckle plate to extend the mount to the gusset hole and that might want to flop around with arm movement.

Here are some pics:

One thing I did realize by going back and relooking at the pics is that the three cuirasses that are the closest to what I am making all have solid steel straps over the shoulders and sides to secure the Back to the Breast. Here are some pics:




Note- Pretty sure this set of shoulder straps is backwards or aftermarket muddling by the Higgins. Wish I had a pic of the back but the case was against the wall and had bad glare.


Note the difference in the two spaulder attachment pts. Extra swivel on the right side for extra movement.


Right side hinge appears to be original and fancy. The left is not.


I have struggled with the leather strapping arrangement in both areas. I've made up several different configurations for the shoulders and was not happy. Having the leather strap tuck under the BP created a leather & buckle plate thickness sized gap across the entire BP/gorget interface. Having it go over is a bit better in that issue but has its own difficultly with the way the buckles lay against the Gorget and it puts the leather end right in the way of the gusset tab. Plus the buckles were right where the spaulders edge sweeps over the BP and was at risk of hanging up.

The belt around the waist has its own issues with the way it wraps around the from the backplate flank mounts over the edges of the BP flare and then flops down on the face of the flare and does not follow the V of the flare. It is also hard to get properly snug. Plus if I am going to wear my sword belt on the cuirass the way we see them in portraiture then I'd end up with two belts vying for the same space. That is something I have yet to see in a painting.

All of this points toward me making a set of steel straps for the shoulders and sides. Guess I know what I am doing next...

[Rene K.]

sometimes they used this solution, but more often at the inside. Also a strap of leather was in use as a kind of spring.

[Johann ColdIron]

sometimes they used this solution, but more often at the inside. Also a strap of leather was in use as a kind of spring.

Oh wow, hadn't seen that external spring solution. Though I would have to add a hole that is not in my examples, not that I am wedded to them. Something like that could easily be lost at a cleaning/reriveting too so it might explain why we don't see it more. I could see doing a similar set up on the back side and tucking the tip into the open area of the hem roll. Intriguing!

Is that from a piece that there might be more pictures of? The gusset bevel is also very close to the top gusset rivet which I considered to get more movement out of the gusset. But now that I have had it on I've realized what I have is enough to fight with. It would be interesting to see how they treated the rest of the gusset.

I've seen some done with a lining strip at the edge for retaining but am hoping not to do that. Leather eventually fails in some manner.

[Rene K.]

Sadly i have no more pictures about this special piece. But i'm shure i have more pictures of such spring solution in my archive, but where...
I will have a look about this detail when i delivered my maximilian suit

[Mac]

I find that with a bit of careful fussing, the gussets can be tweaked so that the sides of the breast will act as springs. There is a lot of friction involved, and the results are not as "snappy" as I would like them to be.

Mac

[Johann ColdIron]

Thanks Mac,

So the fussing is to make the gusset bear against the breastplate in a springy fashion somewhere? Like bending in the top corner of the BP slightly, or gusset edge out? I was focused on bending out the area around the lower rivet when I thought I could not make that work. Perhaps too focused...

I'll investigate and report back. Thanks!

[Mac]

Thanks Mac,

So the fussing is to make the gusset bear against the breastplate in a springy fashion somewhere? Like bending in the top corner of the BP slightly, or gusset edge out? I was focused on bending out the area around the lower rivet when I thought I could not make that work. Perhaps too focused...

I'll investigate and report back. Thanks!

Yes. It's the part of the gusset behind the lower rivet that must be shaped so as to force the gusset into its "wide" position. The rivet has to then be tight enough to keep the gusset pressed firmly to the inside of the breast, but not to tight that it binds.

I said this would be fussy.


Mac

[Johann ColdIron]

Thanks Mac,

So the fussing is to make the gusset bear against the breastplate in a springy fashion somewhere? Like bending in the top corner of the BP slightly, or gusset edge out? I was focused on bending out the area around the lower rivet when I thought I could not make that work. Perhaps too focused...

I'll investigate and report back. Thanks!

Yes. It's the part of the gusset behind the lower rivet that must be shaped so as to force the gusset into its "wide" position. The rivet has to then be tight enough to keep the gusset pressed firmly to the inside of the breast, but not to tight that it binds.

I said this would be fussy.


Mac

Fussy is my middle name! I think I get it and I'll give it a try.

Any opinion on the side plate lower edge line? One solution would be "stop looking at it"...

[Indianer]

Thanks Mac,

So the fussing is to make the gusset bear against the breastplate in a springy fashion somewhere? Like bending in the top corner of the BP slightly, or gusset edge out? I was focused on bending out the area around the lower rivet when I thought I could not make that work. Perhaps too focused...

I'll investigate and report back. Thanks!

Yes. It's the part of the gusset behind the lower rivet that must be shaped so as to force the gusset into its "wide" position. The rivet has to then be tight enough to keep the gusset pressed firmly to the inside of the breast, but not to tight that it binds.

I said this would be fussy.


Mac

In other words, the gusset must be a slightly wider curve/larger radius than it's bearing/the notch?

[Mac]

In other words, the gusset must be a slightly wider curve/larger radius than it's bearing/the notch?

It's not quite as simple as that. It's more about having a sort of twist to the gusset so that "out" is the normal position.

Mac

[Johann ColdIron]

Ah, that is useful to help visualize what is moving.

Then I was fitting the gusset I did notice that I was able to adjust the snugness of the top gusset hem location where you want it to at least "look" tightly fitted by opening/flattening the gusset slightly. Figured that out about the 16th time taking them apart and filing it slightly.

Gussets are not a perfect arc and the ends are more flat than curved. There is actually a lot going on with them.

[Johann ColdIron]

Finally getting around to updating this. I was not happy the way the BP shoulder buckles worked, no matter where I placed them. Steel hanger strap under, over. Hung from the center or hung from one end. All just did not work and put the buckle right in the way of the spaulders. So I did what I always do when I hit a block and look at pics of originals. 90% of the cuirasses with the Augsburg tab above the gussets have hinged steel shoulder straps and corresponding side straps. The other 10% look suspect...

Since there was no real urgency to getting this on the fighting field with everything cancelled right now I added a bit more complexity to the project. So on with the show.

Spent a bunch of time trying to template it and resolve the existing details with the future plan. Perfect example of know what you are really going to do before doing it. Changes in midstream have consequences. I'll have to fill some holes from the leathers and work on the rolls a bit.

Here is the steel strap worked into rough placement. Lots going on here between keeping the strap centered on the gorget wing and NOT banging into the neck lames/rivets under movement. As far as I noticed the cuirasses with original rivets are pan headed and often capped with the caps sometimes worn through. This makes me think that the rivets are acting as bearing surfaces to allow the gorget to move with less resistance than it did with leather hugging the gorget. I am betting this is an original feature so I replaced the clipped rivet heads back into their holes from when I removed the leathers in anticipation of the heat work.



There is a lot of 3d movement of metal in these. Just cutting steel and bending it did not get it to snug up to the gorget bearing surfaces in a flush manner. So every small clamp in my inventory was employed to hold them still while heating and bashing.



Lots of plotting and staring and looking at originals. Rolled the back end and stared some more. Then eventually saying screw it and trimming. The originals are pretty slender but thick material so I just kept trimming and expect to trim more once I have them permanently mounted on their studs. The edges get a decorative treatment and bevel that has to be accounted for in the shape reduction.



Then mounted the rear side of the hinge and checked again.



THe hinge material was 12 ga so the barrels were a bit stubborn. Knowing I had multiples to do I made a tool out of a meat tenderizer... er Jack hammer bit! I use wire to hold the sacrificial axle in place. First when squeezing it in a vise and then while striking it hot.

[Johann ColdIron]

More fitting and more clamps.



Here is the stud and strap mounted and in place. I am using rod stock with a curled for the pins. I'm not exactly sure what was used in period but on the originals the holes seem to be round and not tapered. The pins on originals (which are very likely to be replacements) run the gamut from modern cotter pins, to hand made sheet metal cotter pins to rod stock with curled ends to rod stock with an upset and pierced end for the retaining cord. When doing the fitting I used modern cotter pins and did not like the spring action they were imparting. It made the pins very resistant to removal under tension. The rod stock pins are too but less so. The will get tapered to improve insertion. It's fiddly.

Strap tabs are being engineered to terminate before they get past the lower end of the Gusset tab. If not they will affect the movement of the tab. Some overlap this area but are quite tapered so the effect is lessened. I like a cleaner look. Also trying to match the arc of the gusset with the arc of the strap end to make them flow together somewhat.



Side view. Still need to flatten the end of the bottom roll where it goes under the BP. That will help that line nest together. The side pins will also help keep them mated.



Front view. It is very pointy but there is a bit of camera distortion going on in the image. The belt will go away with the installation of the side pins and straps. That will allow me to put my sword belt in its place without embarassing "double belt syndrome". Which you never see in portraiture. Even when there are clearly no side pin/straps. Clearly the sword belt is mounted on the BP but there should be a belt holding the cuirass together as well. Guess that got photo shopped out. There are some interesting questions to be asked about how a man is armed when transitioning from Unarmoured to Armoured and visa versa.



Here is a top view. There is some asymmetry going on but I think it is related to my actual body shape and not just a mistake. Looks worse in this pic than in reality when on my body. Strap length difference is only 1/2". Some fighting damage makes my musculature different from side to side. One scapula rides different than the other thanks to a Duke... I'll have a couple holes to play with in the straps to see if I need to tighten or loosen it to bear weight properly. But I am committed to the location of the studs and rear hinge locations. Going to hold off on finishing the stud end sides of the straps till I have this resolved.

[Johann ColdIron]

Got more done on the strap hinges. The side attachments are done and now off to the file work.

Before Filing



After. Still need to curl the pointy bit at the end to act as a pin cord retainer. The double holes on the long side will have blind rivets to hold the underside return tight to the strap.



Overall shot. I will look at them in the shop tonight and decide whether they need extra beveling or file notches. Any thoughts?

[Gordon Thompson]

Well my first thought is it would be nice to add more filing around the hinges, while strips could remain plain.

Thank you for documenting your work, its a delight to see.

[Kristoffer]

I am happy to see that Lumpy is getting some more attention!

[Johann ColdIron]

I am happy to see that Lumpy is getting some more attention!

LOL, Me too! Hope to call it shiny before too long.

Fussed with the strap hinges a bit more after filing the flush rivets. Thanks for the encouragement Gordon! Only real change is widening the half round hole closest to the hinge side. It is all I had room for. In the end they will be vaguely reminiscent of the hinge details on my vambraces and hopefully fit in. I reduced the angles of the edge bevels to make them feel lighter as well. I'll do one more sanding pass on them after heat treat to crisp them up.



Here is where it stands now. I've bolted the gorget into the strap hinges through the planned arm harness holes. It occurred to me that the holes that have served well in the gorget "Should" serve as a template for the arm harness hanging holes in the shoulder strap hinges so I put them in. Since they match I can use them to help unitize the cuirass for heat treat. Will still need lots of bracing but it is a start.



Back, fun to see the heat affected zone from one of my passes to force match the back and breast. I'll be doing one more pass with it all bolted together so that the hinges sit tight and the overlaps of the plates appear tight. In reality some may only be tight where they intersect.





Next effort will be filing out the arm gussets a bit for max articulation and try to carry the line of the shoulders straps through the gussets. Or at least suggest it.

[Johann ColdIron]

Got a bit more done this weekend.

Spent some time thinning the hinges so that the sit more organically on the cuirass. Started as two layers of 12 ga so they are pretty substantial. This will be especially important on the shoulder hinges on the backplate. The spaulders operate right over them. Once I got that done I thew the arm harness on there to see how it hangs from the existing leathers I had used in combat. Nice to get to that point!



Overall it works but I will need to bevel all edges and round all corners to prevent the top of the spaulder hooking on something in motion. The front pin mounts are a little high too and will get reduced and rounded. Ultimately I think a set of pauldrons in in my future but I'm going to get the half suit done before adding new projects.



Now that the hinges positively locate the back against the breast I also did some more snugging together of the gorget, back and breast interfaces. This was done by clamping the surfaces that need to be be flush and parallel or at least appear so when worn and heat persuading them together. Couple places the clamp distorted the piece when hot and I had to reshape the ends to remind them of their place. I need to rebevel every plate edge to make them pop visually. Especially on the gorget that has seen 5 years of untempered use.



Very close to sending to heat treat. One thing I need to add before I do is holes for the turnkey pegs that will eventually hold a fauld. Plan for the future is a single fauld swappable with a three lame that can suspend a fauld based leg harness. Wade has some nice examples that have Half cuisses that allow the knee armour to be removable as well. I'm planning to do that. Kinda the Garanimals of armour!


J

[Johann ColdIron]

Update from since my last. I moved the fauld up on the list as I had some time before the heat treater would be ready for me. The Fauld will help fill out the silhouette and help protect my hips while fighting. Also it will serve as the test bed for added lames and potential leg system.

Patterned material. I prematurely clipped the codpiece notch. Should have left that alone for flexibility in the final shape.



Pretty straight forward effort of basic dishing as long as the flare on the BP it is setting on is a good even flowing shape. Then it doesn't need much shaping after the initial dishing.



I intentionally left the fauld long so I would have room for final trim around the BP and account for the bump roll & channel.

[Kristoffer]

Looking very nice. Are you doing long tassets with detachable knees?

[Johann ColdIron]

Thanks K,

Of course! Plan is to have a set with the different levels of detachment down to the knees eventually. Possibly a fauld 3 lame set that terminates in tassets if I build stand alone legs.

But a tempered Burgonet in a similar vein as yours next. My old mild one has taken a beating and needs to be retired.

[Otto von Teich]

Excellent work! You should be proud!