Björns Junkjard

[Indianer]

Hello Guys. After long research I made a pattern for the rerebraces in my last post.

I am still trying to figure out how a rerebrace conforms to the body - There's the deltoid muscle, the Bicep, Tricep, the rather flat medial side where Bicep falls down right into tricep in a rather plateau-like incline, regardless of how strong/hypertrophic the athlet is. Yet I have not found explanations on how to accommodate these curves. I would be very grateful for general principles around that.

Taking this further, I would love some ideas on how to shape the following pattern. Step by step, how would you do it to get a good arm? Thanks a lot! Indi

[Mac]

Hello Guys. After long research I made a pattern for the rerebraces in my last post.

I am still trying to figure out how a rerebrace conforms to the body - There's the deltoid muscle, the Bicep, Tricep, the rather flat medial side where Bicep falls down right into tricep in a rather plateau-like incline, regardless of how strong/hypertrophic the athlet is. Yet I have not found explanations on how to accommodate these curves. I would be very grateful for general principles around that.

Taking this further, I would love some ideas on how to shape the following pattern. Step by step, how would you do it to get a good arm? Thanks a lot! Indi
Gothic Rerebrace_50.jpeg

First off, there are three things which make this arm strange. The first is that the seam is on the lateral surface, rather than being on the medial one. They are usually in line with the armpit. The second is that it has built in voiders in the ventral surface of the elbow. In this case, there are two, but the orphaned hole suggests that there should be at least one more. The third thing is that the proximal end of the lateral surface is articulated. This is a feature we see in later arms with turners, but it is rare before that. It's tempting to think that the "deltoid" articulation has been added to where the armpit should be and the the original curve has been cut away. It's impossible to know without more pictures.

In any case, to get a template set for what the arm now looks like..... First of all, start by imagining the upper cannon as a rectangle. Then divide that into four quadrants. The dorsal surface of the arm is quadrants 1 and 2, with it's centerline on the line between them. The ventral surface is quadrants 3 and 4 and the its center is the line between those. In this (unusual) case, the armpit is centered n the line between quadrants 2 and 3. The lateral surface of the arm is centered on the line between 3 and 4. The two lames of the voider are pretty straightforward. The two lames of the proximal edge are also easy, but their location (spanning the seam) is very strange.

This is a very quick and tragically small sketch of what it might look like. I do not guarantee the proportions, but the important relationships should be OK. I have presumed that the flutes are symmetrical about the line between quadrants 1 and 2.

Nota Bene....... I see now that I have made the sketch as if it were a right rather than a left, but I'm too lazy to draw it again and not computer savvy enough to mirror image it.



Mac

[Indianer]

Thanks a lot for Your input Mac! I will be out of office for a bit, but will get back to it soon with more photos and commentary. So long, Indi

[Christian Wiedner]

First off, there are three things which make this arm strange. The first is that the seam is on the lateral surface, rather than being on the medial one. They are usually in line with the armpit... The third thing is that the proximal end of the lateral surface is articulated.

While not common, the only really odd thing for me is the upper articulation on the INSIDE of the arm which doesnt seem to work even if it was on the outside as the cutouts are way to deep. In the picture the upper arms are mixed up in the display.

but the orphaned hole suggests that there should be at least one more

The open hole is for the internal leather, like the two in the center, filled with rivets. So two lames are correct.

I have presumed that the flutes are symmetrical about the line between quadrants 1 and 2

The fluting pattern on the rerebrace of A60 is kind of spiraling

Others than that I mostly agree with Mac

[Mac]

First off, there are three things which make this arm strange. The first is that the seam is on the lateral surface, rather than being on the medial one. They are usually in line with the armpit... The third thing is that the proximal end of the lateral surface is articulated.

While not common, the only really odd thing for me is the upper articulation on the INSIDE of the arm which doesnt seem to work even if it was on the outside as the cutouts are way to deep. In the picture the upper arms are mixed up in the display.

but the orphaned hole suggests that there should be at least one more

The open hole is for the internal leather, like the two in the center, filled with rivets. So two lames are correct.

I have presumed that the flutes are symmetrical about the line between quadrants 1 and 2

The fluting pattern on the rerebrace of A60 is kind of spiraling

Others than that I mostly agree with Mac

I get myself in trouble whenever I just dash off a sketch without spending more time do it right. I should have recognized the armor; and I should have looked for more pictures.

Mac

[Christian Wiedner]

The open hole is for the internal leather, like the two in the center, filled with rivets. So two lames are correct.

This is of course nonsense, as the rivets for the internal leather are hidden under the previous lame...

[Indianer]

Hello Mac. As promised: I tried to reconstruct a high gothic rerebrace. Here are all the photos I gathered for research. I based the efforts on 2...or maybe 3 suits? (Can't place the suit next to the horse - Is it Sigismund or a different one?)

Anyway:
1) One suit has slanted elbow lames. On the other suit they are straight, like on your pattern. I originally mistook the orphaned hole ("Mystery hole") with the red circle for a rivet hole that would also affix the lame in a slanted position. I thus assumed the slanted way for both suits and went with that.
2) The suit from your pattern has insert plates above the deltoid. You assume these are really made for the armpit. That would put the seam on the medial side too. They looked interchanged to me as well all the time I've been looking at 'em. Be that as it may, I made a paper pattern and tried it on. At least in paper they do seem to serve their function.

I like to think I made a working pattern for "the best of both worlds". On my pattern, the seam is also on the inside. Since we are already talking about it, you're very welcome to add more thoughts here.

Best, Björn

EDIT: Hello Christian, I just saw you commented too. Thanks for getting involved!
EDIT 2: Why to I only have 1 Deltoid lame? Because putting 2 there stood in the way of making sth workable. I didn't have the time to split that one up as well - I guess I should for better effect in a later iteration.

[Christian Wiedner]

Your reference pictures are all A60 and A62 from vienna. There is no Sigismund anymore it is A62

I have no idea about the function of the cutout in the armpit but if you dont want to try it and alter the pattern anyway you should orientate yourself on 16.c. examples for the upper articulation.

I also would add some material towards the ellbow and narrow the spacing of the rivets of the lower articulation

You probably should put the pattern a little higher on your am.

[Indianer]

Hello Christian, many thanks for the reply!

As it is, the material in the armpit prevents me from pulling it up any further. I will try to install a "Deltoid"-Style cutout there and see how it goes. After all, this is how it probably should have been done in the first place.

I will report back when I have revised the pattern as per Your suggestions. So long!

[Christian Wiedner]

As it is, the material in the armpit prevents me from pulling it up any further.

So thats probably the answer for the cutout

[Indianer]

Hello folks, this is about greathelmets. I found a small something that I have questions to. The armourer fits this helmet over the bascinet that goes under.

A GH in the making, with Bascinet inside

The early Bascinet worn underneath

Screenshot 2023-08-30 104514.png (193.07 KiB) Viewed 10308 times

• It appears the Greathelm gets its own suspension liner. There is this on Wikipedia, but I'm fairly certain it has been misdeclared. The effigies of count Ulrich von Werd, Landgrave of Alsace +1345 and Sir John Marmion (né Grey), +1387 show sth. quite different. Simpler, like one would find inside a sugarloaf.

• • Would this liner even be made of fabric, or are simple leather flaps better? The helmet would not ever sit right on the bare head anyway since it's made with the cerveillere underneath in mind. It is also not made to deflect crushing blows from the top, but to stave off lances and arrows.

So when the armourer fits this helmet over the early Bascinet that goes underneath, he does not attempt to close-fit the skull caps. He has to make a guess where to put it, accounting for the liner inside. That right?
Much obliged!

[Indianer]

Hey folks. I found this image

- a bro brandishing his gothic pauldrons. Looks great at first, but I wonder: Is this what they are supposed to look like?

The first 2 lames by the neck are entirely folded under with quite some gap and the spaulder lames look straight, not following the curve. That right?

[Mac]

Hey folks. I found this image
3f28a1d1-bf05-43fd-9b3c-34609127e264.jpg
- a bro brandishing his gothic pauldrons. Looks great at first, but I wonder: Is this what they are supposed to look like?

The first 2 lames by the neck are entirely folded under with quite some gap and the spaulder lames look straight, not following the curve. That right?

It is certainly strange that the lower four lames are not collapsing. You can see how they are digging into the arm. I suspect that the internal leathers are too stiff. These things require strong but supple leather. This is a combination that's hard to find in modern leather, especially if you think it's important to avoid modern tannages.

Mac

[Indianer]

I waited a bit with this to give others a chance, but here it is:

It is certainly strange that the lower four lames are not collapsing. You can see how they are digging into the arm. I suspect that the internal leathers are too stiff. [...]

Thanks Mac!
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I would like to procure some lead to make a leadblock. Making it from diver belt weights seems the most straightforward approach. A few questions:

1. How much weight should I order for a reasonable sized block? Thinking about helping with gauntlet knuckles right now.
2. Do I smelt it back down simply in a steel box? Or do I need sth more...stoney?
   • EDIT: Graphite boxes. Right? Sometimes I just need to say things out loud before the solution occurs to me..

Any help appreciated! So long

[Indianer]

Hello all, and happy new year. I need advice on lacing strips on arming doublets.

Eyelets..go where? Front for closing the doublet, Bottom edge for cuisses?
I think the laces for Pauldrons, upper arm Canon and Elbow couters are simply sewed onto the doublet, pauldrons are not tied into eyelets, right? Where else do I need laces? Much obliged!