Björns Junkjard

[Indianer]

Hey guys, a happy new year to you all!

And while y'all seem to enjoy a few quiet days I'm generating more trash. Which is bad, because said trash started out sooo promising:

[All-position, multi-pass Flux-cored wire, no gas, correctly wired; welder adjusted to measured material thickness]
[screwed up pieces: 2''x2''/ 50x50 mm square tubing, 3,7 mm wall strength]
[Test pieces: 40x40 mm square tubing, 2,9 mm wall strength]


Nicely tacked, fair and square (really, no distortion against all odds):


Next, as in the practise pieces, i filled up the cleft good as I could in one straight pass:


Then...things happened. The plan was, again just as in practise, to perform a zig-zag motion across the weld to fill'er up. Saw that in a video, 5:10. My tubes seemed comparable.
I did it like that, but got this:


I watched the slag crust forming behind the puddle as indicator for advancing speed, and tried to watch the size of the puddle too. In some places it runs down into the cleft and thins out real quick, unforseeable. Anyway... I had to attempt this in a troubled emotional state. A grave mistake, but I felt I had to do it before the effect of the past days' training would have worn off. The training piece is the ...curious one. The last attempts to get good seams were the ones circled on the left, called "great". In the important pieces, some welds burnt into the corner of the pipe (without the taper, bottom ones). The first piece, 2nd from left, got large pits. The next ones smaller pits, but still...that didn´t happen before.

I tried to improve the result by hanging the ground clamp upon the U-tubes (top of the pieces), so the heat would run through them and less straight into the fragile corners. That helped a bit.


Now:
1. What to do for rescue?
EDIT:
- increasing wire stickout will help fill gaps and pits

2. What should I have done in the first place? Reduce the "Thickness" setting of the welder to something below the tube strength? Reduce that interesting extra setting for "heat in the weld" that is supposed to produce thicker seams?

Much obliged. Happy 2021!
Indi

[Indianer]

Welding on.

In the meantime, I've desperately been trying to wrap my mind around gothic gauntlets. Nevver having seen one in person I asked Wade to take a few very special shots. They were labour intensive, but he did it anyway - thanks Wade.

I've traced his A-213 top view, and then overlayed it with a tracing of my hand. Trying to reconcile the two, this is how far I came. My hope was to find anatomical hallmarks to use when patterning gothic gauntlets. Basically, I need help adjusting the lines to the ideal position. Any input appreciated.

Gothic Gauntlet.png (87.63 KiB) Viewed 13583 times

Best, Indi

PS: Still trying to find a way to improve the porosity in those welds.

[Scott Martin]

Hi Bjorn

trace or scan your hands and send them to me (you have my email) - I'll send you my current pattern and my hand for comparison (I take a size 10 glove, which seems pretty average). I'm having some tgrouble getting the main knuckle plate to work as smoothly as I want it to, but it's now in the "fine tuning" phase: I will try to have the complete build instructions up in the next month, since I'm working on the instruction set I whish was available when I was learning 30 years ago, along with the detailed patterns (and notes on what to modify up / down for sizing)

Scott

[Indianer]

Hi guys, I just remembered a class trip we had back in high school to an old round tower in Goslar, Germany. It harbors a small museum upstairs. I thought, since most of you guys might not ever have seen what's in it, you might wanna take a look. Can't claim those chestpieces are genuine. Not can I deny it. Feel free to chat about it here. Or not. U know...whatever.

Best, Indi

[Indianer]

Hi guys, I wanted to run something by you. I recently found this video on the making of a close helm. The guy is welding two halves up from a blank and I suspect that blank may be useful in the exact same layout for most kinds of helmets out there, if one were to account for 3 measurements.

helmet template 1.JPG

(75.99 KiB) Not downloaded yet

Now we do have those overlays from Mac.

If I were to draw those overlays for all the helmets over that prototypical head, then I had prototypical measurements for the template. One template, just different edge lengths. If I then were to overlay the helmets with my own head tracing, I could figure out minimal adjustments in height for example to make the helmet fit ME.

So far this is a theoretical exercise. But unless I am forgetting something important here, this may be the shortest way from idea to pattern to helmet. Originally I intended to raise helmets, but heck, I do have a welder I can trust and I do practise welding. That video makes it look like real quick work to hammer out a helmet. I was so impressed by that process, I think I will adapt it for myself.

Let me know what you think. Thank you -

All the best,
Björn

[Johann ColdIron]

That is a pretty common pattern style. I have one from back in the 90's I still drag out when I make something. It puts the welds on the sides and centerline. Certain blows land in those areas but it does mean that the center of the panels are usually dished which can make them thinner if you are not careful. I think that is why Mac and others prefer the Can or House pattern. Which put the welds around the perimeter completely and you raise it inward to close in on the final shape. This makes it thicker. Search for Can and House and you should see the discussions on it.

The arching crown of that pattern makes for a good helmet padding pattern, though.

[wcallen]

There are a few advantages of the house and can.
1. The metal always gets thicker, not thinner.
2. You can try the thing on even all the way back to the pattern stage.
3. All welds are done early, so you work them before the piece goes out the door. You will generally find any problems in the welds as you bash on them.
4. You can choose to have very little metal movement, or more based on how you want to work, and whether you want to intentionally thicken the material.

I think #2 is huge.

Wade

[Indianer]

Hello Guys,

can anyone tell me what those reinforced right Italian elbows looked like? I.e., what is the innermost cup like? Does anyone have a picture? I searched Golls thesis a lot, so far without success. :/

Thank You!

[John Vernier]

I believe they are generally exactly the shape you see, but with an extra reinforcing layer in the area most vulnerable to lance strikes, due to the thinness of the metal. Here are a couple of pictures of the Right arm of suit B2 at Mantua, from Boccia's book. It appears that the reinforce overlaps the wing of the cop by just a few mm.

[Indianer]

Hello John,

thank You very mich for Your answer and the image. I did not have an inside shot there either.

Did You see that the inner wing is also riveted on? This suggests it either broke off and had been redone at a point, or the inner cop was generally just a cop with no wing, and had or had not been added a primary wing later.

We need more examples. I'm excited what else we can bring forth.
Björn

[Christian Wiedner]

This one is a repair.
There are several inside shots in Goll
ref_arm_882, 885, 938, 5055

[Indianer]

Thank You Christian, got a chance to look through that today. Looks like it could be anything from next to no wing to a full one inside. Cheers

[Christian Wiedner]

Where do you see next to no wing?

[Indianer]

Had another look. Next-to-no wing goes for the guardbrace left only (ref_arm_882, 885), not the right arm. DIdn't wanna ring alarm bells, sorry.

[Indianer]

Hello guys,

I found myself wondering how far up an italian rerebrace should reach. Does it cover part of the deltoid muscle on the side? If so, did those things follow the countour of the arm and flared out a bit at the top to make room for the deltoid?

Much obliged, thank you!

[Indianer]

https://cdn.britannica.com/36/113036-05 ... oulder.jpg

[Indianer]

Hey folks! Question above still stands.

But I need another bit of information - under the greathelmet they wore a cerveillere. DOes anyone know if these were padded? Did they respect the inviolable space aroudn the head, or did they sit rather tight? Much obliged!

[Indianer]

Soo...it never ends..

I'ven been meaning to ask about this for a while: Can anyone with experience in visors tell me, if this procedure is really what they are using? Thanks!

[Rene K.]

Basically it works like this. But every craftsman has his own techniques and skills.

[Indianer]

Thanks Rene!

[Sean M]

There is never just one way of making anything, but here is how Eric Dubé made a German sallet with visor in 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR4Q1ZeIr1M It looks like he starts with an oversized template, and trims a lot of steel away with a bandsaw, whereas AgeofArmour uses a template which is much closer to the final size, and removes less steel as the visor is formed.

[Indianer]

Hi Sean, I had all but forgotten about Dubés videos. Thx for the reminder! Added a lot of things to my To-Do list, work for another few weeks at least.

Update: Bought myself two brand new dishes!! Took me long enough..^^

EDIT: Cut it open. Viewing the inside, I'm pretty sure it's simply too large, wall might even me a little thin. On the bright side: I'm an idiot. Might be possible to buy suitable steel half-spheres on the internet just like that. No reason to fuss about with gas bottles anymore.

[Indianer]

Oh, regarding the EDIT in my last post: Since I might be able to simply buy dishes, what diameters would you guys recommend? I'm hovering somewhere around 180mm (7''), +-


I have also seen dishing forms ground out of massive steel blocks. Anyone have a recommendation how to get those cheap? It wouls make my life much easier right now to know what I should be shopping for - height, diameter, how deep to grind. Just in case I end up doing it that way.

[Armadillo]

The best tool I can imagine to guide the construction of a sallet ocular is shown in the image below. It is a dead simple tool, and specific to the helmet design you are working on. It can be cut from mild steel plate and welded to a shank. I'm pretty sure Eric Dube uses one like this in one of his instructional videos. It is much easier to use than the fluting stake shown in the AgeofArmour image. Sorry for the photobucket stamp, I don't currently have access to my original photos so I pulled this from my Sallet build thread.
-A.

[Indianer]

Hi Armadillo, thanks bunches for the Input! I had forgotten about that thing...I have 6mm steel plates lying about that haven't been assigned a task yet. Perfect for this, really! Think I'll make one. thx

[Indianer]

So, bottle bottom dish is a myth. Walls far too thin, radius too big. Couldn't gauge by eye, had to cut it open and see. Bad. But: After searching far too long I found a single blacksmith in Germany that had a proper thick-walled metal ring intended for shield buckles etc. in store. Good.

Now, I aqcuired these wood logs (Can u see them?)... about 28x28, 26 cm high (11x11 x 10,5'' high)

Before I do anything to them, I thought I'd like to ask You all what You would recommend I do? I know for certain that I need something like this...

Obliged, Indi

[Indianer]

The best tool I can imagine to guide the construction of a sallet ocular is shown in the image below. It is a dead simple tool, and specific to the helmet design you are working on. It can be cut from mild steel plate and welded to a shank. I'm pretty sure Eric Dube uses one like this in one of his instructional videos. It is much easier to use than the fluting stake shown in the AgeofArmour image. Sorry for the photobucket stamp, I don't currently have access to my original photos so I pulled this from my Sallet build thread.
-A.

Hello again guys,

I would like to build this and am thusly asking if anyone has a sallet lying about? If so - it would help a lot if You could trace the inside of the lower edge of the visor for me? I wouldn't have to spitball the curve then.

[Indianer]

Continuing last proceedings - I've cut a beam from that log and gouged out circles with rasp disks for my angle grinder. Bought them years ago in anticipation of this right here. 4 gouges, 2 sides left blank for now. Each turn slightly deeper than the face before, ranging from 0.5'' to 1'' for now. My reference says I need at lteast 2: .5 and 1.5'' deep.

So, if anyone would like to share some wisdome, now's the time. Or...at least there's still room to salvage things.

Also: Anyone have a suggestion how to treat the wood? Still need to find out what tree that was. I'll update this tomorrow. I'd like to avoid it cracking form dryness down the road.

[Indianer]

Hey guys. I don't really know where to go with this...so I'll drop it here. At least there are craftsmen around that might know what I'm on about.

Remember when I asked the plenum for advice on how to build a multi-purpose workbench? Welding table, Leather working bench, Juweller's bench. I'm making progress.

Today I just wanted to install a few sacrificial anodes (the boat kind). Means I had to drill 2 holes, tap them and screw the anode on. Went good, even though working overhead. When I tried to get the second screw in, it...I don't know. Got caught in the wrong thread or so. I fought about an hour with it to get it out again with pliers, clamps and so, had to re-tap the hole, now a screw can't get a grip anymore. Barely slides in with not pressure. And I cut myself, again.

This is a minor thing. Could simply size it up to M6. Can weld it shut and re-drill later. But it is so disheartening. Sometimes when a thing goes so unfathomably wrong I really just wanna sink to the ground and fall into unending hybernation. Chest gets really heavy and all. Ruined a perfectly fine day, utterly so. I'm exhausted man..

[Indianer]

Hey guys. I just need a quick info:
Would those holes be used to affix an aventail? Many thanks!

[Mac]

Hey guys. I just need a quick info:
Would those holes be used to affix an aventail? Many thanks!
Mystery Holes.jpg

I think the quick answer is "yes".

The only other thing that would use a hole spacing like that would be a lining, but I don't thing that's tenable for two reasons. First, the holes are out in harm's way. This is fine for attaching mail, but not for sewing a lining. Second, by this time, linings are routinely sewn to leather/textile strips which are riveted inside the armor. I have not seen the inside of this helmet, but I would be surprised if there was not a series of rivets with big heads along the inside of the neck where the lining strip used to be.

Mac

[Indianer]

Hello Mac, it's good to read You. Thanks for the quick answer!

To satisfy Your curiosity, I found this:

Attachment: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/22774

I accepted it as good armoring practice to use spacier, bigger holes right in the cheek plates for the lining leather. THat's what I saw on that legendary custom piece Krieger did years ago. THe holes are present on other period pieces as well that I found in my files.

https://philamuseum.org/collection/object/71706

[Mac]

Hmmmm.... The holes and rivet heads on the inside are spaced farther apart than I would have expected.

Mac

[Indianer]

Hello guys, another Armet question:

The visor here is attached...differently, than on a Bascinet.

Am I right to assume there is a full hinge in the usual spot, the front part of which is however not a folded-over part of the visor arm but a separate plate? The visor proper would then be riveted (often flush riveted it seems) to that single front half plate? Thanks!

[Indianer]

Hi all. Below you see what I thought was a rerebrace on the Sigismund harness. It's not...could be one of the sister harnesses. Anyway...

While studying rerebraces, I found an irregularity. That hole (paintjob). The texture of the outer piece (fluted) doesn't match the inner ones. It also doesn't show a rivet hole to go with the one in question.

Does someone know how this all fits together? Composite rerebrace, unfinished restauration, bad camera angle?

Much obliged!
Indi