Milanese and Gothic?

Av8trix · Post by **Av8trix** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 11:59 pm

hmm... so I'm surfing around, looking for my dream kit, and I'm running into some confusion as to the differences between "Gothic" and "Milanese" breastplates...I know there's going to be some "labeling" diffrences between sites, but they do look quite similar in basic shape- Breastplate, faulds, tassets, etc..
Can anyone clear this up for me?

-Honora-

------------------
-For there you have been, and there you long to return-

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Wed Apr 11, 2001 12:54 am

Gothic is heavily fluted and comes from Germany.

Milanese was italian, and was more rounded, i think. It's a little out of my period,so i'm likely not to be the best source of info, but that's my 2 cents..

Tom

------------------
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus!

Ancelin · Post by **Ancelin** » Wed Apr 11, 2001 7:28 am

IIRC, Milanese armour is generally composed with fewer larger plates.

Gothic armour is generally made of more smaller plates.

Others with more knowledge will surelly give you more details.

------------------
Ancelin

Â«Memento finisÂ»

Vermin · Post by **Vermin** » Wed Apr 11, 2001 7:46 am

OK, I'll give this a shot...<grin>
Gothic...
Well, there can be Milanese gothic plate,so that confufes things even further, but I'll try and clear it up...

Gothic refers to the lines and shape of the pieces, with german style gothic plate being more angular and "spikey".
Cutwork seems to be rather prevelant on the germanic armors as well.
There is USUALLY, but not always, a good bit more fluting done to the germanic stuff.
Now, the Italian stuff, Milanese gothic, call it what you will, can have the same shapes to it, to a point, but USUALLY has a more rounded look to it.
It's not as "hard" lined as the german armor.
Someone here had said the Italian armor was made up of fewer plates that The German armor....thinking about that for a bit, I'd probably agree.
Although alot of export stuff came out of Milan, so if they were trying to imitate a germanic rig....moot point, ya know?
But, yes, for the most part, "I" think that is a fair assumption, and agree.

I like the Italian gothic for SCA combat because of the rounded shapes, blows "skip" off easier, especially spear shots.
All the fluting on Germanic rigs, while making the piece stronger, provides more traction for a shot....
It's a small difference, but one I've noticed because I've used both styles of steel harness.

So, if it's got a more "rounded" appearance, it's PROBABLY Italian.
If it has lots of fluting, points, and cutwork, it's PROBABLY German.
If it has both, it's PROBABLY an Italian copy of a German style.
VvS

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Wed Apr 11, 2001 8:31 am

You guys summed that up pretty well...Otto
I might just add that alot of export armour blended the two styles.Seems like some guys often wanted the "best of both worlds"

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Wed Apr 11, 2001 10:10 am

I've seen armor from Bohemia that incorporates pieces from both styles. It was pretty goofy.

One thing to remember is that the Gothic stuff, since it had so many points, flutes, and angles, was made a lot thinner than the italian armors. I've always heard that Gothic relies on structure to absorb a blow, whereas italian relies on thickness.

If you're wearing Gothic that's properly fluted and at least work hardened, you can get away with metal that's about 2 gauges thinner than normal.

HELMUT

Destichado · Post by **Destichado** » Wed Apr 11, 2001 10:21 am

How about English or Bergundian? I've seen armours from the 15th cen. that don't fit neatly in either catagory.

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Wed Apr 11, 2001 11:20 am

There are a lot of effigies I've seen that show English knights in Gothic armor. I've read that these were mostly exports. That would lead me to believe that they were german or italian copies of german.

Of course, there are visual differences. There have to have been copies in England, since there are sallets with peaked skulls, as opposed to the rounded ones that came out of Germany and Italy.

Also, if I remember correctly, the bellows visor sallets were english as well.

I think trying to find an accurate example of either is like trying to find a katana. You know there are real ones out there, but you know there are a hell of a lot of cheap knock offs as well.

We're trying to find the ideal from a 30 odd year stretch of time, when there was an awful lot of commerce, and everyone started copying everyone else. I think that Milanese and Gothic should stay defined as they are, and anything else would be regional.

HELMUT