My kit's rough draft! Any and all advice! Gaze upon the high

Jake Stallion · Post by **Jake Stallion** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:26 pm

Here is a very rough illustration of what I've come up with for a fairly simplistic kit based on late 15th century Italian/German armour. (I am under the impression that the Italians often exported armour to Germany. Is this correct?)

<img src="http://images.prosperpoint.com/images/2117/106894-1.jpg"</img>
The blue circles are proposed arming points (not all are shown; some are in the back, etc.). The yellowish color indicates an arming doublet. The grey is plate. The brown is leather, mostly strappings and reinforcement.
Since the drawing is admittedly crude, here's what I have in mind for the torso, arms, neck and head protection:

--Arming doublet with tabs at the hips, lace on arms, leather reinforced/padded shoulders and elbows, as well as "vented" inner elbows that allow more movement.

--Peascod breast/back plate from Rough From the Hammer (almost completed) that is secured at the side and supported mostly by the shoulders. (hence the shoulder padding) with lamed tassets (or tasseted lames, I'm never sure which is which!)

--Shoulder cops/pauldrons that are secured by arming points to the shoulders.

--Full Italian-style arm based on the pattern in the Archive Pattern section, secured by arming points at the rerebrace and the elbow.

--A gorget from Wise Ogre Armoury (already procured and padded)

--A T-Faced Barbute by Garridon

--Gauntlets (eventually, if I find some at a good price range)

I would really appreciate any advice on this kit. It's a first draft blue print sorta thing, so if anything's wrong or should be modified, please let me know! My persona for this kit is a late 15th century German. I don't want to get too much more specific yet, and I don't want to knitpick too much since my funds are exceedingly limited. My main goal for now is to eliminate any and all "sports gear" such as hockey pads.

I would REALLY appreciate some advice on period leg harnesses. I am under the impression that traditional SCA "Arming Belts" are not period, and they don't distribute weight very well at all. I've been told chausses are more of a mail thing, so should I go with a jupon? I live in South Carolina, and it often gets extremely hot... A shirt, quilted gambeson, full plate AND a jupon might be unbearable. Are there any other period alternatives? And what could I use to replace a hockey knee pad under my knee cops?

Thank you all in advance for any advice or comments!

-Jake

[This message has been edited by Jake Stallion (edited 04-17-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jake Stallion (edited 04-17-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jake Stallion (edited 04-17-2001).]

Armourkris · Post by **Armourkris** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:29 pm

maybe it's just me, but the pic isnt working

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What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee:

Martin de la Riviere · Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:37 pm

put a ? at the end of the URL and it works fine

Jake Stallion · Post by **Jake Stallion** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:42 pm

Used a different server. Now it should be right before your eyes...

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:43 pm

Hi Jake -

Not to be discouraging, but peascod breastplates are in no way, shape or form 15th c., or even early 16th c.

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Bob R.

Jake Stallion · Post by **Jake Stallion** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:05 pm

I guess I mis-labeled it... It's not really a peascod, it's just a globose with two archs cut out of the bottom to allow for tassets. Simalar to this:

</img>

Only mine's not as fancy. Justthing Ron Simmons Globose that tapers down at the bottom to a point.

Pathfinder · Post by **Pathfinder** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:12 pm

Jake,you could put the points for the leg harness on the hips of arming jacket on the inside.
The coat of Charles VI has them.
About the arms,have you made them already? If not I have a set that I made that are too small to fit over my arms with an arming jacket,(always work from the inside out

)
if you have small arms and are interested email me your arm measurements,there's a link in my profile if you want to see them.

Jake Stallion · Post by **Jake Stallion** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:19 pm

Emailed you, Pathfinder!

Pathfinder · Post by **Pathfinder** » Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:57 pm

Emailed you back

Brodir · Post by **Brodir** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 7:53 am

Not bad, the spaulders don't look right though...

Destichado · Post by **Destichado** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 9:42 am

Well, geee,
yours wouldn't either if you made 'em on PAINT!

Ugh, I came in here expecting acrylics.

Jake Stallion · Post by **Jake Stallion** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 10:51 am

I don't even think I have any spaulders=P
So is this anywhere near authentic? Any advice or attacks? Thanks!

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 10:57 am

I'm not sure about those points for the reverbraces high up on the sleeve. It seems like the top of the reverbrace needs to be able to rotate vs. the shoulder, and the points might prevent that. Would attaching the reverbraces to the pauldrons work instead?

- Kyle

Munz · Post by **Munz** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 12:00 pm

Your points for the spaulders need to be at the point of the shoulder, at the point of rotation, not at the sides. Same goes for the elbows. move the points to the back of the arm right above the point of the elbow. Again, the same should go for the rerebrace. move the points to the back of the arm and strap across the inside of the bicep. You can point the vambrace to the pourpoint or to the elbow cop.

Gundo · Post by **Gundo** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 12:15 pm

"this" above is a peascod.

I'm pretty sure all 15thC examples have faulds, or faulds and tassets, but not just tassets, especially articulated tassets.

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Jake Stallion · Post by **Jake Stallion** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 2:45 pm

I admit, I'm very new at armouring...
I really don't think the breastplate I have is a peascod. It's just a globose breastplate except for the little archs cut out of the bottom for the tassets/faulds/whatever.

Speaking of the tassets/faulds/whatever, what would be the best way to go about this construction? I've got a lot of books on armour and such about, and the particular illustration I'm trying to emulate is the Italian knight on p. 133 of "Knights" by Andrea Hopkins.
What kind of hip protection type armour would be best for a novice armourer like me, and how would I go about making it?
If the breastplate I have absolutely isn't period, I'll use it anyway until I can afford something better... I'll try to get a picture of it up soon, so someone can tell me what it is, exactly.

[This message has been edited by Jake Stallion (edited 04-18-2001).]

Jake Stallion · Post by **Jake Stallion** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 2:50 pm

Oh, yeah, and thank you everyone for all the tremendous help... Now and in the past and in times that are no doubt to come.
You all rock hard! I can't believe I'm so close to having a harness, and it's all cuzza you folks!

*gets all misty eyed*

Garridan · Post by **Garridan** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 3:03 pm

I dunno, Jake... you misspelled my name, so I might have to rethink the whole thing...
Hope I can make the barbute look as good as that drawing

Tuomas · Post by **Tuomas** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 3:10 pm

Jake if your going to wear plate like that and not wonder "why is it not protecting me to well???" Get some armpit armor besguse
<sp?> I think there called Remeber its not how much armor it how its placed.

Btw do you have much problems with great swords I mean using them in that kind of armor I mean does it block your arms at all?
Just wondering.

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Tuomas
I like things that go thump.

randy · Post by **randy** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 7:07 pm

i fight in full bugundian plat ( well not this week, breakage) and i fight with a bastard sword and have only one limiting factor, bad gauntlets, but just got new ones! i think that calls for a big whoo hoo!!

woodwose · Post by **woodwose** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 9:18 pm

I don't know much about 15th century armor so I can't really comment about Jake's drawings and stuff (well, it looks pretty good for something done in MSpaint)... but I'm currently working on some early to mid 16th century armor and keeping record of my progress and stuff I've learned while working on it on part of my website. (http://mailmaker.tripod.com/armorlog.html)
no patterns but some of the information and pictures there might somehow be usefull.

I have my gorget and helm done, now working on the breastplate, backplate, and fauld.
anyone have any tips on fauld construction?

Jake Stallion · Post by **Jake Stallion** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 10:54 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tuomas:
Jake if your going to wear plate like that and not wonder "why is it not protecting me to well???" Get some armpit armor besguse
<sp?> I think there called Remeber its not how much armor it how its placed.

Btw do you have much problems with great swords I mean using them in that kind of armor I mean does it block your arms at all?
Just wondering.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've had the opportunity to wear a well-constructed, weight-distributed suit of armour ONCE in my life... (Out of barony, of course.)
I didn't get to fight in it, but man, it was like a dream! All the loaner armour I've worn, and almost all the armour in my barony hangs down from the shoulders and a weight belt like dead weight. I can't freaking WAIT to get this suit done! I highly recommend arming points to, like, freaking, EVERYONE!

So, uhm, I don't think greatsword would be a prob. Get good gaunts.