Chainmail

DarkRahl · Post by **DarkRahl** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 7:40 am

Hello, as you all may notice I am new to this board, and to armoring. Just recently I started to make chainmail. I can make links, but that's about it. When I try to do the 4-in-1 pattern they all just bunch up and give me problems. At first I thought it was the flimsy 16 gauge aluminum wire I had, so I went to the hardware store and bought 12 gauge galvanized steel wire. I got home made about 50 links and tried to do another 4-in-1 pattern and it did the same thing. well I was just wondering what could be my prob. Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks in Advanced
DarkRahl

Adriano · Post by **Adriano** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 7:56 am

It takes practice. Maybe you're trying to start with too tight a weave -- that is, with small rings that don't give you much room to maneuver. Just to get used to the weave, I might try winding that 12-gauge wire on a 3/4 inch dowel, which would give you big rings you should have no trouble putting together. Then, when you've gotten used to that, you can try something small, say 14 gauge wire wound on a 7/16 inch rod (which is what I mostly use).

There are others here who are far more expert than I on the subject of mail, and may be able to give you detailed instructions. Good luck; I love to see mail on the field!

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"Come, winds! Blow, wrack! At least we'll die with harness on our back!"

cyvad · Post by **cyvad** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 7:59 am

I started by using 14gauge galvanized fencing wire with a 3/8" diameter steel rod.
One of the easiest ways is to close a bunch of rings first. Then slip four closed rings on to an open ring and then close it. Do this till you get sick of it(so you'll have enough to work with.) Then you can start weaving these 5 links to another 5 links with a central ring and so on and so on. ( this will make a chain). They're are many websites with pictures that can explain this a lot better. But maybe this will give you an idea.

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www.ancientarmor.com

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 8:35 am

Yes when you're just learning and starting a piece the rings end up fliping around and becoming not 4-1.

Here's some tips. Don't put your piece down when you're working on it. Hold on to the end you're adding rings to and keep the rings from flipping and twisting.

I think the easiest way for someone to learn is to have a piece of 4-1 maille to add to. And by the time you've added on to it enough so that it has become something more then just a patch of maille you'll understand how everything is supposed to work.

I'm completly self taught. I started mailling over 10 years ago with basically no reference, no internet and no asistance from someone who knew what they were dooing. If you're stubborn you'll figure it out. Mind you my first project which was a vest had the 4-1 pattern running diagonally.

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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 9:42 am

I find that for a lasting piece, cutting the links is integral.

If you horse through each link with wire cutters/ side cutters, you'll end up with a butted link that looks like this from the side:
>(
which makes it really easy for links to unhook/ get tangled.
If you cut half way through the link, then bend it off, you'll end up with something like this:
)(
which is a lot more stable. cutting the links with a saw is ideal, but it takes some practice, and you need to wind your links a little bigger than you plan on ending up with, since it removes material.

My brother has had success with metal cutting coping saw blades, but he's always been more patient than I.

A friend of mine used to cut links with a dremel metal cutting saw bit. They cost about 3.50 a piece, and only go through about 2 feet of 14 g. coil before they dull, but that was steel: I'm going to be trying aluminum myself soon, and am looking forward to seeing how long they last.

HELMUT

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Bridging the gap between his contemporaries, Helmut wore boxer- briefs.

Johan_Fitztomas · Post by **Johan_Fitztomas** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:04 am

Hang in there. I use an old piece of sink countertop, inverted it, and drove some finishing nails in along the top to hold the rings in an open pattern. That way I could stop whenever I needed (change baby) and not lose my place.

Hope that helps

David Hagler · Post by **David Hagler** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:06 am

Try making a 4in1 strip and add on to the side all the way down running a ring into two links as you go.

DarkRahl · Post by **DarkRahl** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 11:06 am

Wow, I didn't expect to get so many responses in so little time. Well right now I am using a 1/2 inch dowel and the links are pretty big. Ill try and use all of your advice, hopefully it will help. And what I ment by bunching was the links would go from
o o
o
o o
To
I
o
I

Even when I was holding it up right. Mabey I am connecting or winding the links the wrong way? When i may the 4-in-1 I close 4 and put them in one open...
Thanks for the help!
DarkRahl

[This message has been edited by DarkRahl (edited 04-24-2001).]

[This message has been edited by DarkRahl (edited 04-24-2001).]

Norman · Post by **Norman** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 11:39 am

Sounds to me like some of your links are flipping and you're closing them in the wrong direction.

I would go the opposite of Matt's advice and lay them flat for each manipulation.

This is what you need to look for:
Make a batch of four into one (I call them "rosettes"),
lay them flat so that the rings lay like the following (the ")" represents the upper part of the link):
<pre>
(( (( ((
) ) )
(( (( ((

(( (( ((
) ) )
(( (( ((
</pre>
When they're lying flat and you see the pattern like that, insert a ring connecting two rosettes and lay the segment flat again.
Look at the row on the left.
<pre>
(( (( ((
) ) )
(( (( ((
) <--
(( (( ((
) ) )
(( (( ((
</pre>
Now, do the same thing in the other direction.
Look at what happened at the upper left.
<pre>
(((( ((
))) <-- )
(((( ((
)
(( (( ((
) ) )
(( (( ((
</pre>
Now connect the next "rosette".
Where the arrow is, I have added two rings.
<pre>
(((( ((
))) )
(((( ((
))) <--
(((( ((
) ) )
(((( ((
</pre>
The bottom two rows will be floppy at this point in time. Lay it all flat to keep the pattern and add one more link:
<pre>
(((( ((
))) )
(((( ((
)))
(((( ((
))) <-- )
(((( ((
</pre>
Now we go again - connect a new rosette with one ring:
<pre>
((((((
))))) <--
((((((
)))
(((( ((
))) )
(((( ((
</pre>
Connect the next one with two:
<pre>
((((((
)))))
((((((
))))) <--
((((((
))) )
((((((
</pre>
Tack it all down with one last ring:
<pre>
((((((
)))))
((((((
)))))
((((((
))))) <--
((((((
</pre>
Voila.
Note -- this is the easiest way I could find to describe the set of manipulations.
There are a variety of ways to add rings, one at a time, two at a time... etc.
Once you get used to how it's supposed to sit, then you can start playing.

------------------
Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)

[This message has been edited by Norman (edited 04-24-2001).]

igelkott · Post by **igelkott** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 2:10 pm

When I first started, I began by closing a bunch of links and stringing them on a straight piece of wire:

----))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))----

Then I started linking 2 together at a time, like this:

<pre>
----))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))----
((((((
</pre>

When I got confused, I could just lay down the wire on a table and make sure that the links lay in the correct direction. After the second row is done, I then started a third row:

<pre>
----))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))----
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
))))))))))))
</pre>

Again, whenever I got confused, I just laid the whole thing down and arranged everything correctly. The wire provides a nice fixed point of reference. Once the third row is done, it's simple after that.

Chris

hey Norman... How'd you get spaces to show up in your post?

[This message has been edited by igelkott (edited 04-24-2001).]

[This message has been edited by igelkott (edited 04-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by igelkott (edited 04-25-2001).]

toweyb · Post by **toweyb** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 3:04 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by igelkott:
When I first started, I began by closing a bunch of links and stringing them on a straight piece of wire:

----))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))----

Then I started linking 2 together at a time, like this:

----))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))----
((((((

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the way I like to do it. I get lost with the "rosette" method. Rings do flip sometimes, but it's easy to spot them.

hey Norman... How'd you get spaces to show up in your post?

He put the {pre} tag around his diagrams. By the way, Norman, that was the best explanation of the "rosette" method I have ever seen.

[This message has been edited by toweyb (edited 04-24-2001).]

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 3:08 pm

You know, we should all give thanks for ASCII now...

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Bridging the gap between his contemporaries, Helmut wore boxer- briefs.