a question for the martials

Armourkris · Post by **Armourkris** » Tue May 08, 2001 12:15 am

So i'm going out and buying metal for my helm tomorrow, finally.
what i;m making is a early crusades style pot helm, faceplate only.
i want to adapt if for sca combat, do i have to put a fullplate back on, and if so whats a good way to hide it, OR can i get away with a bargrill type thing to cover the back of my head and neck?

------------------
What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee:

Malcolm MacLachlan · Post by **Malcolm MacLachlan** » Tue May 08, 2001 6:33 am

I've seen that type of helm really well done. It had a seperate back plate and sides that had been integrated inside a coif of some sort. Then the top and faceplate locked on. The end result being that without the helmet the guy was wearing a rather bulky looking coif and then he simply slipped on a very accurate looking pot helm and he was SCA legal. Maybe you could even just make it one piece with a mail camail starting from just under the top and around the sides to give you the same effect.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Tue May 08, 2001 7:06 am

Umm, you've got to have rigid protection on the back of the skull and the top of the spine that's integral to the helm. I don't know if this is specifically mentioned in the armor regs, but it's necessary for safety. Malcolm, what you saw might have been a chainmail drape over a rigid back plate, painted black to be non-obvious beneath the chainmail. The rigid protection doesn't have to be a solid plate; I suppose you could use joined bands or even stout bars hidden under the chain, but just remember that the total mass of the helm coupled to the skull is part of the protection.

- Kyle

Conal · Post by **Conal** » Tue May 08, 2001 2:55 pm

I know the helm Malcolm's talking about. It's owned and worn by the Society EM, Duke Eringlin. Malcolm's leaving out a couple of crucial points. You're right, Kyle, it does have a backplate hidden under the coif, as well as partial side plates. It also has, if I remeber correctly, some sort of steel straps that attach to the side and back plates of the half-helm and cross over the top of the head to provide support to the open cylinder of the back and side plates. Not sure what was low in the front, under the mail. Remove the pot helm, and it looks as if the wearer is wearing a skelatal, half-helm with chain mail coif. The pot, as Malcolm says, snaps into place over what appeared to be a spring loaded button. All very cool! Quite the clever piece of workmanship.

Regards,

Conal

Rainald · Post by **Rainald** » Tue May 08, 2001 5:04 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...what i;m making is a early crusades style pot helm, faceplate only.
i want to adapt if for sca combat,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mean something like this: http://www.geocities.com/rainaldk/earlyhelm5.jpg?

I plan on covering up the sides and back with a torse and mantle .

[This message has been edited by Rainald (edited 05-08-2001).]

DanNV · Post by **DanNV** » Tue May 08, 2001 5:56 pm

There is a knight here who has a semi-middleeastern helm with mail. The sides and back tuck in something like a close helm or armet, just not as far so he can get it on and off. We drilled holes in the side plate up tight against where the sides lap under the edge of the skull and used wire to lace a camail onto the helmet. From a couple feet away, even, it looks like the skull is sitting on top of a mail coif. Gives a great look and a really solid, protective helmet, too. (Not to mention lowering the center of gravity of the helm so it doesn't rock as bad when it gets hit.)

Dan

Lord Charles · Post by **Lord Charles** » Tue May 08, 2001 6:22 pm

I am familiar with that helm as well. I made the chainmaille for it. It is indeed 2 pieces and quite cool. He gets all the marshals attention when he wears it on the field.

You can, at least in my kingdom, also make a helm with just strips of metal welded to a frame kinda like a bargrill but with strips of metal. Maximum airflow, but not real attractive, would be cool to cover with a piece of maille or leather.

------------------
Épreuves plus quo noús pouvons décrire

Lord Charles DeCordené
Fyrd, Mallet, Torse (Calontir)
Squire of the body, Sir Donatto El Lobo

DeCordené WireWorks and Chainmaille Discussion Board

dccharles@hotmail.com

Malcolm MacLachlan · Post by **Malcolm MacLachlan** » Tue May 08, 2001 7:08 pm

Well hell, I knew what I meant, and that's all thats important right?

Armourkris · Post by **Armourkris** » Tue May 08, 2001 8:12 pm

ARG
i went to the first sheet metal place, the one i was rec0omended to go to, they have a large sign saying sorry, temporarily closed.
so i found another, everyone was at some seminar thing so unless i wanted a bloody huge sheet i was out of luck, went out, found a third place, for whatever reason they were closed(it was 2 in the afternoon on a tuesday, seems like odd hours to me.)
ANYWAYS, tomorrow hopefully.

As for the back of the helm, i'm starting to think i might put in a recesed vendel style back, then hang mail over it. would that work?

Malcolm MacLachlan · Post by **Malcolm MacLachlan** » Tue May 08, 2001 8:54 pm

I would think so.

Conal · Post by **Conal** » Tue May 08, 2001 9:07 pm

Lord Charles wrote:

I am familiar with that helm as well. I made the chainmaille for it. It is indeed 2 pieces and quite cool. He gets all the marshals attention when he wears it on the field.

Lord Charles DeCordenÃ©

You did nice work, Charles. See you at Lilies. We're staying with Master Gottfried.

Regards,

Conal MacDale
Meridies

Lord Charles · Post by **Lord Charles** » Tue May 08, 2001 10:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Conal:

You did nice work, Charles. See you at Lilies. We're staying with Master Gottfried.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually it is a piece of crap. I was experimenting with a new material and weave, a real fine small ring stainless. And of course thats the one he wanted, so I had to work pretty close with the guy building the helm as the tolerances between the 2 pieces of the helm is pretty critical.

Got it all done and it looked great, then found out the maille was not the best choice as it just didnt stand up well to the beatings.

Trouble now is I cant replace it with something more appropriate as it wont fit between the 2 helm pieces. I am doomed to repair that thing for life.

I run everytime I see Eringlen coming.

------------------
Épreuves plus quo noús pouvons décrire

Lord Charles DeCordené
Fyrd, Mallet, Torse (Calontir)
Squire of the body, Sir Donatto El Lobo

DeCordené WireWorks and Chainmaille Discussion Board

dccharles@hotmail.com

Conal · Post by **Conal** » Wed May 09, 2001 7:43 am

Lord Charles wrote:

Trouble now is I cant replace it with something more appropriate as it wont fit between the 2 helm pieces. I am doomed to repair that thing for life.

I run everytime I see Eringlen coming.

Lord Charles DeCordenÃ©

LOL! Oh, man, that sucks! Well, at least it looks good from a distance.

Regards,

Conal