Thanks T Bob!

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Post by Dalewyn »

Animal: Thanks for the compliments. Hanging around here is enough for me to develop a complex :wink: Also Truehearth just sent out an awsome suit with brass trim, and makes me feel small. He's getting better every year. (he should be posting pics of it on his site soon)

TBob: Yes, I've considered the corrizina; I've been asked to do it several times. Same answer, don't have pattern and forms for it yet, I'm more busy than I really want to be (but it's awful hard to turn away paying customers...) I heard someone's reviving a kit now that they used to sell, so that is one thing that I won't feel too bad about not doing. The only R & D I do lately is when I get inspired for something I'd like to have, like the COP's, and (hopefully for spring crown) Japanese armor. Then I put my spare time into it as well as my work time.
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Post by Animal »

Just a thought but wouldnt it be cool for someone that worked in plastic armor to come out with a suit of armor that was designed to go underneath clothing to simulate those personna that didnt necessarily wear a lot of armor? Wouldnt have to look anything period because it would go under a shirt or pants, or a robe or something, but it would protect without betraying it's presence like the lacrosse pads or motocross stuff does by it's profile. Shouldnt be too hard I would think. Just a thought.
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Post by BdeB »

Hey Man,

Don't forget about me too on that lamellar. I was serious about wanting to know if I could get some cut, if the price is reasonable. Now that i've seen the picture, it looks really, really good.

I'd offer to write a battle song for the Chux in repayment, but I don't think that would be nearly enough in compensation.
"I think you're wrong in your understanding of fighting.... though what you have written is very manly, it does not convey a real sense of clue...." - Sir Christian The German
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Post by Animal »

No worries Bryce, he's looking into getting a die made for that style of lamellar and if he can work out the details I think he'll be able to produce it no worries. If and when that comes together I'll definitely let you know and probably post a thread on here as well. Glad you like it, I cant wait to get the rest of the scales and finish it.
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Post by Animal »

WOOHOO! The 9 hole scales got here today and I have one of the shoulders laced up. I'm gonna have a piece of leather on the very bottom so I can have a bit of decoration room to play with and as soon as I can get this goddam finicky camera to talk to this computer I'll post a picture :)
Also I saw a picture of the lamellar my friend made. It gave me a stiffy. I'll see if he will let me show you guys. I think you'll like it.
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Post by Bedlam »

Sniff, sniff. I feel jilted.
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Post by Animal »

Heheh that's ok. This suit is letting me fix all the mistakes I made when I ripped off your armor and didnt look close enough. It's going real well btw, I'm almost finished lacing all the rows of the shoulders and skirting and hopefully by tomorrow I'll have the rows laced together. Yay!
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Post by Animal »

So I get the armor laced together, finished to the point where it's usable and I go the friday night fighter practise all set to try it out and lo and behold the three guys there are all sitting on their asses! "We dont feel like fighting tonight" Talk about blue balled! Well, the armor is way cool and as soon as I figure out why my camera and computer arent speaking to one another I'll get more pictures up.
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Templar Bob/De Tyre
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Post by Templar Bob/De Tyre »

Animal:

If you can e-mail the pictures to me, I can post them from my Home@armourarchive account....
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RE:

Post by Lucian Ro »

Animal, if you are getting a dye made, can you put me in on this order too? I'm only 155, 5'-10" and it will be more of a 'vest and shoulders'-combo, as I will not need anything past the waist.
The look is excellent, I am very impressed.

You know, I already have 'scalloped' or 'bullet'-shaped lamellar, but I am not finding it as flexible as I had wished.
Bob, or anyone familiar with lamellar for that matter, do you think this might have to do with the way it was laced or is it that certain designs of lamellar lend themselves to better flexibility?

Also, Bob or Animal, will either of you be at Gulf Wars, as I'd love to take a look at the armor first-hand ...
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Re: RE:

Post by Templar Bob/De Tyre »

Lucien Ro wrote:You know, I already have 'scalloped' or 'bullet'-shaped lamellar, but I am not finding it as flexible as I had wished.
Bob, or anyone familiar with lamellar for that matter, do you think this might have to do with the way it was laced or is it that certain designs of lamellar lend themselves to better flexibility?


Lucien:

The shape of the lamellar is not so important as the method of lacing it is. The most common lacing style is what we call "international" style, or the "seven-hole" style. It can be every bit as flexible as the complicated twelve-hole "Tibetan Willowleaf" style, with far less lacing.

The mistake most people make with lacing lamellar is when they assemble rows to each other. The rule of thumb is this.

Individual lamellae=tight lace. Individual rows=loose lace.

Your individual lamellae must be laced tightly in rows. This makes the protection of the individual plates better, as two or three lamellae are absorbing the kinetic energy from a blow. It also makes the individual rows more rigid.

The individual rows must be laced loosely. This allows the armour to articulate and bend, which, in turn, will allow you to bend. It also has the added advantage of allowing the skirts to move in a manner similar to maille.

Do you get me?

Lucien Ro wrote:Also, Bob or Animal, will either of you be at Gulf Wars, as I'd love to take a look at the armor first-hand ...


I won't be making Gulf Wars--my best friend, his wife and (most importantly) my godchild will be in town, visiting from Washington, D. C.

Hope this helps,
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Post by Animal »

T Bob I cant get the pictures from the camera to the computer. It's a software problem. My wench figured out how to put pictures on the board here, I just cant get them out of the camera onto the hard drive. Thanks though, we'll figure it out.
The lose/tight lacing thing is gospel as well. I used 6mm cord to lace the bands together horizontally and 4mm cord to lace them vertically so they had more movement. Worked like a charm. I love this stuff. I was curious as to why you used the 12 hole plates for the sleeves though when the 9 hole plates worked so well for me. Was itpersonal taste or am I missing something?
As to the die thing we're talking about that. He's got a lot of irons in the fire but I was thinking that if anyone was serious about wanting to order they could email me and I could forward that list to him and show him the amount of people. I think that might get him to see how serious people were and go ahead and do it. I could be wrong, but its worth a try.
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Post by Templar Bob/De Tyre »

Animal wrote:T Bob I cant get the pictures from the camera to the computer. It's a software problem. My wench figured out how to put pictures on the board here, I just cant get them out of the camera onto the hard drive. Thanks though, we'll figure it out.


Good luck with that...


Animal wrote:The lose/tight lacing thing is gospel as well. I used 6mm cord to lace the bands together horizontally and 4mm cord to lace them vertically so they had more movement. Worked like a charm. I love this stuff. I was curious as to why you used the 12 hole plates for the sleeves though when the 9 hole plates worked so well for me. Was it personal taste or am I missing something?


Mostly because I wanted to see how the three lacing styles would work together.

One of the projects I had was to make an entire suit based on the "Tibetan Willowleaf" pattern. My prototype had all of the lamellae hand cut and hand punched with the Roper-Whitney punch, and the armour was made to the waist. It's more flexible than the "Etsin-Gol" pattern, and you can get the armour to nest inside of itself.

The reason I never finished the suit--I got tired of hand-punching all those holes. Twelve holes per lamellae, multiplied by between 150-900 lamellae--you do the math.

I made my suits and suits for nearly all of the members of House De Tyre, (hand-punching the lamellae, de-burring the holes, de-burring the edges of the plates, etc.) and punching T-6 is hard on a Roper-Whitney punch (and your hands). Grinding off burrs from the individual lamellae was no treat, either (hours of mind-numbing work)! Plus, Hushgirl got tired of vacuuming the metal divets out of the carpet.

After about making twenty to thirty of these suits, I got got sick and tired of making them.

Animal wrote:As to the die thing we're talking about that. He's got a lot of irons in the fire but I was thinking that if anyone was serious about wanting to order they could email me and I could forward that list to him and show him the amount of people. I think that might get him to see how serious people were and go ahead and do it. I could be wrong, but its worth a try.

Animal


I'd like to be included in such a list.

My e-mail is in Profiles.
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Post by Angus Bjornssen »

I'm only posting this because I've never heard of these tools mentioned by the pro's on this board.

Having worked in a sheet metal (HVAC) shop for several months, many years ago, I have some idea of how to at least get the lamellar plates cut efficiently and without power equipment. Of course this would work best if you are going for the "home plate" shape of lammelar but makes a good starting point for any shape regardless.

A foot operated straight shear with a backstop. Your typical sheet metal worker would be able to whip out hundreds (if not more than a thousand or two or more) in a day. This tool stands alone on the floor, comes in a variety of widths and, ideally, the backstop is easily adjustable.

A 4 x 8 ft sheet could be whacked into 3.5 in x 4 ft (or 4.5 x 4ft, assuming a 4ft wide shear) strips in minutes. Just set the backstop, push the metal to it, step, push, step, push, step, ad nauseum. Then adjust the backstop to the desired length of the plates, feed the strips in and push, step, push, step, push, step, etc., until the strip is gone. Repeat. Now you have loads of rectangular plates.

A simple 45 degree jig would allow the same operation to cut bottom corners of the plates off to make the "home plate" shape. Step, turn, step and a plate is done.

After that I guess it's a matter of finishing the corners and edges (grinder?) and punching the holes. Very little deburring would be needed for the edges if any because of the consistency of the cuts.

(As a side note, there is a neat little tool that is used by machinists to deburr small holes. I don't know what it's called but it's made from hard square barstock of some sort, has a handle that the bar is inserted into, the bar turns 90 degrees to the handle where it comes out of it, goes a length of about 3/4 of an inch, then turns 90 d down again for about an inch. Put the bar in the hole, move handle in a circular motion, and voila! the hole is deburred quickly.)

Any good sheet metal shop should be already set up to handle this sort of task and could show anyone (for a price? :) ) how to set it up. The big cost is the shear. However it would be invaluable for coats of plates, lamellar and other simple gutter-type armor. Even for sizing down a piece to be shaped other than square or rectangular. It's simply bulk cutting made easy with no power. A lot more cutting in a lot less time than with a beverly as long as you're going for straight cuts only.

If I had one, I'd be pumping out all sizes and (geometric) shapes of plates for anyone that wanted them.


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Post by Animal »

Ok, supposing you had the room for a shear. Then suppose you had the money for a shear. Then suppose you had a drill press or a roper whitney punch to punch thousands of holes. Suppose you had the time and patience to de-burr botht ehedges of the plates and the holes. Then your idea would be great.
Me, I got two boxes via UPS. One had the 3.5x1.5 7 hole plates and the other had the 4.5x1.5 9 hole plates. I took them out of the boxes and laced them up.
Of the two ways I think I gotta go with mine :)
Now with a die made for these plates its possible to stamp them out at the right shape with the holes already in place. The plasma cutter was a bit of overkill it was decided. But if we can get the die thing to work we should be able to crank out both sizes of plates to our hearts content.
And I never saw a home plate lamellar, that's a new one on me. Mine are rectangular with rounded corners. But whatever floats your boat, so to speak.
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Post by Animal »

WOOHOO! :lol: The camera works again! This is the armor completed to this point. I have some final leather work and decorations to do then I'll post more pics!



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Post by Angus Bjornssen »

Animal, nice looking suit! You done great so far. I don't know much about lamellar other than pics i've seen here, but, I do know that I'm impressed. Lots of work in that one.

As to the shear Idea, it was just a thought on how to do it fast without power cutting. Personally I'd love one just for making CoPs. Then again, I just love making CoPs anyway.

Good luck with the die. It sounds very efficient and fast as hell.

Oh yeah, the "home plate" idea bounced through my head as a pattern before rounding the ends. Beverly would be more efficient for the rounding cut though. Since I work with a jigsaw and grinder, I didn't at first think that way. :oops:


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Post by Animal »

Angus I was actually serious. If I had room time and money it would be a blast turning plates out like that. I used to work a little sheet metal myself and it's a great time. It's just not efficient to make them that way unless you have the facility to do so.
As far as the home plate thing I think what you're describing are scales for scale armor as opposed to the lamellar. Scale tended to have a backing materiel that it was affixed to whereas lamellar tended to stand alone laced to itself. At least thats the way I understand it.
Now all I gotta do is finish the leather plates at the ends of the skirts and sleeves and decorate those and it's pretty much done. Gotta love this stuff :)
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