Rolling edges

jgalak · Post by **jgalak** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 11:33 am

I was experimenting with rolling an edge, and came up with something kind of weird. I am looking ar rolling to the outside, and I know that the normal procedure is to make it look (in cross-section) like this:

http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/rollededge1.jpg

However, I found a relatively easy procedure for rolling the edges like this:

http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/rollededge2.jpg

My questions are: Was this ever done on extant pieces? Is there any reason not to use this method? Obviously this only works when rolling to the inside.

Thanks,

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Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak

Patrick Thaden · Post by **Patrick Thaden** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 2:01 pm

Take your pick they were both used. Rolls to the inside are more common on later pieces than earlier ones but if you look close you will see it done both ways on pieces.

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 7:48 am

I would say that the first method is probably stronger,

Gundo · Post by **Gundo** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 11:14 am

So tell us about your relatively easy procedure?

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accdntprone · Post by **accdntprone** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 7:42 pm

Yes please, give!

I woulda swore I would never hear "rolled edge" and "easy" in the same sentence. With me its more like "rolled edge" and "bloody pain in the &(^%&^% *)&^*^ 6675 A$$" in the same sentence....

jgalak · Post by **jgalak** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 11:54 pm

Well, it's not a procedure that will work for all applications in it's present form, only on relatively straight edges (which drastically limits it's utility). I may be able to adapt it to be more useful, but I'm really only starting to play with this stuff.

Basically, I have a stake that I bought on eBay, I believe it's called a creasing stake. This stake has a series of groove in it, of various widths. You can see a picture of it here:

http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/shop4.jpg

It's the 3rd from the left in the stake plate.

What I do, is place the edge of the metal so that it's over one of the grooves (the largest works well), with the edge just resting on one side. I then use a small cross-peen hammer to drive the metal down into the stake.

http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/rollededge3.jpg
(red steel, black hammer and stake; not to scale)

This forms most of the roll.

http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/rollededge4.jpg

I then use the same hammer from the outside to close it.

I've only started working with this technique on some straight edges, and am not sure I can adapt it to curves enough to make it usefull. I figured I'd ask about the results before I invested more timee into this. If I develop anything else useful, I'll post here.

------------------

Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak

[This message has been edited by jgalak (edited 08-04-2001).]

Sasha · Post by **Sasha** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 3:15 am

This is an often used silversmithing technique. It is also useful for making brass,copper or bronze (or gold or silver, for that matter) chennier for the edges of armour (gives the same rolled edge but in a different colour to the steel. Looks great.)

Doign curbes with the stake you have is possible by deliberately twisting the metal so that you are not always hammering the crosspeen into just creating the curve.
If you try with a strip of waste steel or brass then you will see what ii mean as the stuff tries to escape from you into all kinds of curves. When you manage to control these tendencies a bit you will be able to "steer" the process.

Failing that, there is a stake or plate which has the same grooves in it, but has each grooove in a progressively tight spiral.
This lets you turn really impressive corners!

Sasha
Whos end of semester project was a hollow goblet stem made with the grooving plate.

PS...

Anyonewho wants to can make these useful grooving plates by taking a VERY sturdy bit of hardwood and drilling progressively smaller holes in a row. Use every drill bit you own. Then use a bandsaw or similar to cut the block in half....leaving you with two wooden grooving forms!
Wooden forms last quite well if you do not beat th living crap out of them and just use good hammer technique.

white mountain armoury · Sun Aug 05, 2001 6:22 am

ive been using the same wooden d=creasing form for 3 years, i used a router to make the groove, i also have a creasing stake but i like the fact that the wood does not harm my metal surface