What's a good price range for SCA starter kits?

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:01 am

I've done some thinking and calculations and come up with some numbers.

I could do a full get on the field starter kit that's steel and basically historically accurate for early to mid 14th century.

I came up with a price range depending on different options.

The bare minimum at $400 and the bit more deluxe kit at $630 with possibility for a range in between depending on options.

This is a full list legal harness. Custom made to fit the customer.

Are these reasonable numbers for newbies?

I also offer bulk discounts so the prices could be %10 lower with group orders.

Anyway I'm just sorta lookin to see what people think of the numbers thing and if there is some good feelings about it I'll make some prototype harnesses.

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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory

Guy Dawkins · Post by **Guy Dawkins** » Thu Aug 16, 2001 12:32 pm

Matt,
Describe what you would include in "bare minimum." The Society has its minimum and then each kingdom can impose its own.

As far as price, every newbie is going to have a different size wallet.
My own armor budget is less than what some folks on the list spend to their kit clean.

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Guy
(mka: David Valenta )

[This message has been edited by Guy Dawkins (edited 08-16-2001).]

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Thu Aug 16, 2001 12:42 pm

Knees, elbows, demi-gaunts, gorget, helmet, spaulders, full torso.

I understand that some areas require vambraces. They're included in the more deluxe kit but simple one piece spaulders instead of multipiece could substitute for them.

Pad and strap everything yourself.

For the more deluxe add on nicer torso, vambraces, rearbraces, cuisses.

And then like I said there's lots of things that could be added like greaves, sabatons, besegews pricier splinted stuff, maille maille and more maille, etc. etc.

Also the demi-gaunts necessitate a basket hilt which isn't included.

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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory

[This message has been edited by Mad Matt (edited 08-16-2001).]

Prince Of Darkmoor · Post by **Prince Of Darkmoor** » Thu Aug 16, 2001 2:52 pm

Starter kits are a good idea Matt! I think that a lot of people will be interested in those. It makes it easy for someone to go to one place and get everything they need.

Konall · Post by **Konall** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 10:03 am

For comparison purposes, TCA offers a (stainless!) starter set for $782. I can't find it on their web site, they just list the individual components.

It is in their downloadable catalog, http://www.triplette.com/Triplette%20Comp%20Catalog%20PDF.pdf.

Judging from the photo and description, it is their :
<ul>[*]SS spun-top bargrill helm[*]SS Fixed plate chest protector (w/ side and back plates)[*]SS knees w/ reinforced leather cuisse and regular leather demi-greave[*]ss elbows w/ reinforced leather vambrace and what looks like a short leather reribrace[*]ss pauldrons (3 plate shoulders)
[/list]

It lacks a gorget, and some kind of hand protection.

[This message has been edited by Konall (edited 08-17-2001).]

Edwin · Post by **Edwin** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 10:07 am

How is to be conctructed and how much is to be bought?

When I started gathering armour, dishing and welding were beyond my means. I bought helm, knees, and baskets for hands. The rest I could make in my apartment. I was fortunate enough to already have some 12oz leather though. Leather is expensive now, I bought a hide for $50 several years ago, and made armour with that.

Chinua · Post by **Chinua** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 10:43 am

I feel this is a very reasonable cost for a "starter" kit (It would look better than much of the armour seen on the long time players). I would have droped the 4 bills in a heart beat when I first came out 18 months ago. This is an especially good deal for people (like myself) with a lack of time and skills to make their own armour.

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 10:59 am

I think that is an excelant idea Matt! I really like the idea of one stop full kit shopping for people who are either unable or not inclined to make there own armor. Are your numbers in Canadian or U.S. dollars?
If I might make one suggestion; Check all the kingdoms armor standards, and make a kit that would be legal in all of them. I would offer helm, gorget, simple spaulders, breast and back of some sort, tassets, rerebraces, elbows, vambraces, demi-gaunt, cuisses, and demigrieve. add a sword basket, and a shield basket, and your legal no matter where you go, and well protected no matter how bad your defense is. Come up with numbers for that and use it as your baseline. Folks could add or subtract items from there based on there needs, but the whole nine yards is easily available as a package. Thats what I would do.
However you do it, I think your filling a niche in the market that is somewhat overlooked, and well needed. Once you are ready, let us know. Knowing that your work is well regarded here, I will definitly recomend you to newbeis I know and meet!
Good Luck!
John

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"and the springfieldians heroicly slaughtered there enemys while they prayed for mercy!"

Amalric Unomen · Post by **Amalric Unomen** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 11:39 am

I think the prices sound very fair, and where were you when I was putting my kit together. The $400 set would have caught my eye, but I would have gone for the more deluxe set, cops alone just did not seem to be enough protection.

You really should include pics of the complete rig on your site; I think this is more interesting to the new fighter. Finally as to components, full gauntlets are more appealing and eliminate the need for baskets that do not really fit the knightly image. If the torso is fully covered in the basic kit, I imagine there would be no need for an upgrade in the more expensive set. When I was looking at armour, tassets never seemed all that vital.

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 12:09 pm

"full gauntlets are more appealing and eliminate the need for baskets that do not really fit the knightly image"
While I agree here, I think that full gaunts would drive the price up, and most people seem happier with baskets. BTW, I am doing away with baskets, and will be using full gauntlets.
"When I was looking at armour, tassets never seemed all that vital."
A lot of people might not share my obsession with hip protection. When I was a new fighter, my armor did NOT have anything covering my hips. As a result, I suffered many hits to my left hip joint resulting in some minor permanent damage which sometimes bothers me to this day (twelve years later).So I am admitadly a bit sensitive about tassets, but I would rather see someone go through the extra expense/ hassle of adding them, than wind up in the same boat I`m in or worse. Yes, I know I should have blocked, but I was a rank newbie, and this was mostly the result of one sneaky Dutchess who had trouble landing a different shot after I kept legging her at practices.
John

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"and the springfieldians heroicly slaughtered there enemys while they prayed for mercy!"

Amalric Unomen · Post by **Amalric Unomen** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 1:48 pm

When I said that tassets did not seem vital I was just expressing the view I had when I first started looking at armour. I intend to add leather tassets, I think even I can handle that.

Demi gaunts are cheaper, but how much do you save after you buy the baskets, and if you lose the sword in melee your fingers are dreadfully exposed. I just did not like spending money on baskets, though I have comitted to buying a much more expensive quillion/pommel set.

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 3:08 pm

Amalric,
I see your point about cost effectiveness once you add baskets and demi gaunts in, but I still think the basket/demi gaunt route would be a bit cheaper. At least by what I`ve seen most other armorers charge.
I still think tho that many folks just prefer to use a basket as opposed to a full gauntlet. At least here in the Northeast they do. I see many fighters with good gauntlets just pull them out when they fight great weapon, but use a basket for sword and board. I didn`t say I hold that view, but many do.
BTW, a quillon and pommel set is on my list of things to get too!
John

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"and the springfieldians heroicly slaughtered there enemys while they prayed for mercy!"

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Sat Aug 18, 2001 10:38 am

Ok guess I should fill in a bit of the blanks here.

The upgraded set does have better torso protection. The upgrade gets you up to one of the CoPs like the one currently on my site. the one with the dag plates that cover the hips. The basic set would have a canvas covered version with less plates in the torso (a little less flexibility) and no dag plates.

I'll definitly have pics of the whole thing. Thus the prototyping thing. I don't expect people to buy armour without seeing what they're going to get.

On the demi vs full gaunt issue perhaps in the near future I'll offer that as an upgrade option from the basic kit.

I've actually done a little thinking and I think I can come up with a crusader kit for even less. Less coverage too though. But this would just mean the purchaser would have to make themselves a really thick gambeson.

My wife might soon be making arming clothes. Do you think this would be a good option to include with the kit?

Yes this will definitly look much better then a lot of what's currently on the field.

I plan to make it VERY clear that before buying people sould check with their local marshal for local legality of the harness. I'll even ask them to confirm they've done so.

Sounds like it's definitly a good idea. I've done the prototype gorget already. I've also cut out the legs and patterned everything elce. Hopefully by Monday I'll have it done and I'll be able to take some pics to post by tuesday.

Also I've never tried to buy arming clothes. What's the average price for arming doublet and for gamboised cuisses. Plain and simple stuffed with natural fibres and possibly with a natural fibre shell too.

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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 11:12 am

Just thought I'd post a bit of an update. Over the weekend I got the arms, legs, spaulders, and gorget built. I had the helmet basically finished already and have the CoP for the deluxe version. I've still gotta polish and assemble the arms, legs and spaulders though but will leave assembly untill the end so I can show the simple version by itself.

So basically I just need to get the gauntlets and simple coat of plates done and I'll be able to post pics of the basic kit and then followed shortly by the deluxe one. I'm probably going to do an even spiffier one as well which would also include sabatons, greaves besegews and plain finger gauntlets. Not sure what the price of that one will be yet though. Won't know till it's done probably.

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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory

toweyb · Post by **toweyb** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 2:32 pm

May I suggest adding a page of detailed instructions for padding and strapping? A pig pile of metal parts is very daunting to the newbie. Give 'em a road map, at least.

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:41 pm

Toweyb: You may have noticed from being around here on the archive that I'm a very helpfull fellow. That goes for people I sell stuff to also. Ie. anyone who buys anything from me will get answers to the best of my ability to all questions they have about what they bought. So basically yeah already got that covered. I might do a little how to and put it on my site as well though to keep the questions down a little. Also I can strap the armour. It just costs a little extra. And on top of that if someone's buying armor for SCA there are generally lots of helpfull people at fighter practice who will help with padding and strapping instructions.

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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory