pics of my 1/2 completed globose breasplate, needs input.

taltosh · Post by **taltosh** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 8:48 pm

Ok, I uploaded pictures of the breatplate I'm currently working on. I just thought I'd get some constructive criticism from you folks.

I still have to roll the curved edges flare out the bottom edge and planish/polish the whole thing.

Pictures are located at www.geocities.com/taltosh/Armour.htm

Thanks

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Gentleman Chris
Squire to Earl John Tribiger, Journeyman artisan and Clerk
Editor of the KnightHaven newsletter

Armourkris · Post by **Armourkris** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 9:23 pm

i've never made one, and am not claiming to have a clue what i'm saying, but shouldnt a globose breastplate be more globose?
it just strikes me as being a little to flat.
makes me think of one of the japanese do's at the moment actually.
though i know that at least will change when the edges are rolled

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What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee:

Ideval · Post by **Ideval** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 11:06 pm

Hello Sir!
You have some very attractive items posted.

I made a globose some months ago (still haven't posted pictures), and met with great success.

Your globose is not dished enough.
I encountered the depth problem on my first attempt at a breastplate, which was 18 gauge, too big for me, and a pain to dish.

My second attempt, and first completed piece of armour, turned out much better. The trick was to size the pattern down, use 16 gauge steel, and make the breastplate from three plates hard-riveted one to the other.

I rolled the top edges on the breast and back plates, but left the lower hem with a flare. I ran decorative leather along the edges.

IdÃ«val

Ideval · Post by **Ideval** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 11:13 pm

Thought of something else:

Eliminate the flare on the vertical edge under the arms (the sides).

Lay the breastplate on its belly, then use your hands to "flatten" it out.

Now, draw overlapping circles on the inside where you want the deepest dish to be.

Heavily dish those areas, flattening the breastplate out periodically, and start the process over.

The belly will develop slowly but surely. When it seems deep enough, maybe four inches or so, give it one last flattening. Then bouge the inside surface into something like wood or a sandbag or bermuda grass or clay, and then planish the outside. The bouging alone will considerably smooth the surface, and the planish will make it polishable.

If you don't fancy planishing the full surface, you could always russet the metal.

IdÃ«val

Rainald · Post by **Rainald** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 5:28 am

It's really flat in the pics. You need to dish the crap out of the middle section to make it actually "globose". Other than that it's coming along ok.

taltosh · Post by **taltosh** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 11:13 am

Thanks all for the advice. I'll be carving out another dish in my stump and I got a few more hammers to help me along this week so I expect to get more of the globose effect. The only thing I can think of is that I am NOT of the globose "girth" so I'm worried about dishing it too much and end up with something that just plain wont fit... Any thoughts on that?

Ideval · Post by **Ideval** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:18 pm

Taltosh,
the belly need not fill out the breastplate. That is not the purpose of the globular belly. The roundness serves to deflect blows, as a glancing surface, primarily; but also this style holds the "strike surface" a considerable distance from the belly within.
When you finish the dishing, you could pad the inside for fit. I really don't think you'll have a problem though.
On my finished "globose," I lined all the edges, especially the upper hem and the waist, with thick sheep's wool. The fit is excellent and extraordinarilly soft. I am contemplating padding or lining the underside of the straps.

IdÃ«val

taltosh · Post by **taltosh** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 3:54 pm

Well, I've completed a second dishing pass, from a deeper, larger dish bowl I carved this morning and I must say that the look is definitely more "there". I like it much better.
Ideval: I'll consider the sheepskin lining as you mentionned.
As far as strapping is concerned, what is the prefered method for a backless plate? I'm thinking along the lines of the shoulder straps and the waist strap meeting in the center on a large brass ring. Any input, again, would be helpful.

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Gentleman Chris
Squire to Earl John Tribiger, Journeyman artisan and Clerk
Editor of the KnightHaven newsletter

Ideval · Post by **Ideval** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 4:42 pm

Taltosh,
I have seen breasts worn with a leather X or cross straps on the back. This seems the easiest.
My suggestion: make a backplate! By the time you finish the breast, the back will hardly take any time at all. For instance, my backplate took only 4 - 5 hours, maximum.
Why a backplate?
You will be much more comfortable with the mass of the backplate acting as a counter-balance to the weight of the breast. The strapping will be more attractive and easier, and will require less leather.
The backplate can be shaped from thinner metal. I used 18 gauge for the back, 16 for the front - the cuirass is surprisingly light!
The proper shape of the backplate is easier to obtain, far easier than the globular belly. Simply dish the spine inward, that is from the outside of the backplate. Then, from the inside of the backplate, dish two "shoulders" on either side of the spine. Very little dishing produces considerable shape and contrast. Finally, using 18 gauge, the fitting of the front to the back can really be achieved with hand-strength and a little tapping.

I recommend two discreet buckles under the arms, one strap over each shoulder.

I bought a bag of sheepskin scraps for $6, which was more than enough to line the breast, back, and a helmet - my second completed project. I used contact or Barge cement, coating both surfaces and allowing to become tacky before adhering.

I had such fun with this project that I will be more than happy to help you in any way I can. You will certainly be rewarded when you wear it for the first time.

IdÃ«val

taltosh · Post by **taltosh** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 9:43 pm

Ideval, I am considering the backplate now that I'm getting the hang of dishing. The first pass took quite some time, involved lots of expletives and required many sanity checks. The 2nd pass, which in my opinion was much more successful, took less time, was much less frustrating, allowed me to follow my instincts as to where the metal was going. All in all, a much better experience.

As for the backplate, I'm curious about patterns. Is there a way to extrapolate a backplate pattern out of the one for the breastplate, are there examples somewhere? I know Rainald mentionned that he has one for the pattern I used but lacks a scanner. I'm still uncomfortable with pattern creation and with visualising 3d dished form from a 2d piece of metal.

Any help in that department will help a great deal. Once the cuirrass is completed, I plan on a set of pauldrons and articulated knees and elbows with splinted defense, should be an interesting winter.

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Gentleman Chris
Squire to Earl John Tribiger, Journeyman artisan and Clerk
Editor of the KnightHaven newsletter

taltosh · Post by **taltosh** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 11:19 pm

bump, added pictures of the 2nd dishing pass.

www.geocities.com/taltosh/Armour.htm

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Gentleman Chris
Squire to Earl John Tribiger, Journeyman artisan and Clerk
Editor of the KnightHaven newsletter

Ideval · Post by **Ideval** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 11:30 pm

Yeah! please go with a backplate - you will impress many of the people you never see. You will look and feel Kingly.

The backplate pattern looks like a breastplate pattern on paper. The major difference is that the backplate is somewhat wider through the "shoulders."

Your experience dishing concurs with my own.

This is how I experienced it, now several times. Let me know if you agree. The first denting and passing over the flat sheet is the most laborious. Basically, you are "breaking" the metal out of its current state. When little dings completely cover the metal's surface, when it is evenly "broken," the metal all of a sudden becomes stretchy, malleable, and flows with the hammering.

A few times, I got angry. When I did, I started hammering the hell out of the metal. Lo and behold, the metal had taken a serious dish, albeit incredibly lumpy. The subsequent bouging reduced "some" of the dishing, but when all was smoothed and done the piece had its intended depth.

I would be glad to send you my backplate pattern, but I am differently shaped. So, do what I did. Buy a posterboard and cut a basic backplate pattern a little larger than looks right. Then, punch holes at the top and the sides and tie the paper to your back.
Have a friend use a marker to indicate trimming for your shoulder-blades and under your arms. Trim a little, and repeat process.

A word of caution. The shaping of the backplate will conform the plate to your shoulders, so you needn't trim too much. Also remember the top roll reduces the height about a 1/2" or so. And, the leather straps will hold the plate slightly off of your shoulders - if you wear a gorget under your harness, figure this into the equation as well.

My breastplate is about 19 inches high. What is the measurement you get?

IdÃ«val

Ideval · Post by **Ideval** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 11:42 pm

Sorry, I was typing while you were posting pictures.

Yes, already I can see the belly begin to bulge. I'm sure you can see it even better, being able to turn the piece in your hands.

How deep is the dish you are using?

I used a dish three inches wide by half of an inch deep, hammered in an oak stump.

I ask because I have a much deeper dish that I tried to use. The result was that the dish's lip actually un-dished part of the belly and I had to carefully go over and over the metal. Even an inch and a half deep dish caused this to happen.

IdÃ«val

taltosh · Post by **taltosh** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 12:02 am

I am dishing in 3 different bowls. 1 is about 4" x 3/4" deep, the other one is about 4" x 1 1/4" (tho I plan on using this one for cops mostly) while the other is a large 8" x 2" bowl. I like the large one cause I can use the edges to shape after getting more depth with the center. And I concur wholeheartedly with the whole dishing xperience. Just when you're about to give up, the metal seems to say F$%^ it, I'll surender to the pounding and start shaping up...

I'll try what you suggested for the backplate, I have lots of posterboard left and I can use the pattern for the breastplate as a starter.

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Gentleman Chris
Squire to Earl John Tribiger, Journeyman artisan and Clerk
Editor of the KnightHaven newsletter

Rainald · Post by **Rainald** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 4:10 am

Hey Guys; hang loose a day or two and I'll get the back plate scanned. Taltosh, I'll email you two pics soon.

Rainald · Post by **Rainald** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 4:40 pm

Taltosh, check your email

taltosh · Post by **taltosh** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 8:51 pm

got it, thanks

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Gentleman Chris
Squire to Earl John Tribiger, Journeyman artisan and Clerk
Editor of the KnightHaven newsletter