Marcele wrote:I recently made a custom-fitted garment for this purpose for Asbjorn, who is on this board, and he was kind enough to allow me to take some pictures of him wearing it. -Tasha
That looks AWESOME. How can I get you to make me one?
G
Thank you, Gaston.
I'm making a few others for folks local to me who can be fit in-person and that's basically my 'niche' -- custom-made arming cottes for nearby guys (and at least one gal) who have something of a specific vision. With discussion, they order their fabrics/materials, come over to get fitted/measured, and I go from there.
Where are you located? I'm in Southeastern PA, USA... Where's Winter Park? You can PM or email me, if you want to talk further. At this point I can't make any more deadlines before Pennsic, if that's something you attend...
In medieval French texts, "pourpoint" means "doublet". In the context being discussed, it is a sleeveless, collarless "vest" used to suspend armour. The last usage has been popularized by the likes of Gerry Embleton in the old Company of St. George materials and Brian Price in his book on armour making.
Yes. She skipped the one where I look like a pirate....Thank you Marcele
I lost twenty pounds prior to fiiting to get to an "authentic" shape...before I trashed an ankle two weeks ago and went from 20 to 40 miles of running a week to no miles again...whine... and I was on track to have my 31 inch waist for Pennsic. Whine again....
I can't wait to match the garment up with the armour Cet is making me. Version 1 in stainless, and version 2 in spring .
I would say that Marcele is great to work with and makes wonderful clothes that work like medievil garments are supposed to, but that would mean all the rest of you would be ahead of me for my next order...
Asbjorn
What would Ulrich Von Liechstenstein do?
In Modo Antiquo
Or, a demi-fleur-de-lis sable www.historiccombat.org
I'm making a few others for folks local to me who can be fit in-person and that's basically my 'niche' --....
I might be out of luck. I'm in Florida. I also am skipping Pennsic this year because I'm back in school. (I'll be back next year right after graduation.)
Your stuff looks great though.
Some other comment realted to the thread:
"Pourpoint" literally means "for points". Points are the laces medieval folks tended to use to hold their armour on. The knot used also seems to often be called a "point" but opinions vary. I guess the latest trend is to call a garment made for points with no sleeves a pourpoint, but previously it was used for any close fitting garment with or without sleeves who's primary purpose is to anchor armour in place. Some say that the military pourpoint was the inspriration for the civilian garment called "cote hardie" and I subscribe to that theory. Later, this garment tended to end at the hip bones rather than be contoured over them, the shoulders were tailored for a more square look, and a short flaired bit covered the laces (sometimes made of overlapping "dags") This is usually called "doublet" both for civilian wear and for attaching armour to.
It is front laced, made of canvas lined with muslin, no padding. It has leather tabs sewn into it with grommets placed in the tabs...eventually we will sew the grommets in, covering them with thread. It has short sleves with the grand aisette thingie for the sleeves and has tabs for legs, spaulders and arms.
We had lost our hole punch so the leg grommets have yet to be set, in the meantime I've been ponting my legs to a stout belt.
This will be rectified soon, and at pennsic I will have spaulders arms and legs pointed to the same garment.
William Ringlancer of Locksley
Squire to Saint Sir Marco Valerio DiBartolomeo (Caid)
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Building a Better Bill Every Day.
Gaston de Vieuxchamps wrote:I might be out of luck. I'm in Florida. I also am skipping Pennsic this year because I'm back in school. (I'll be back next year right after graduation).
Ah, yeah, probably not going to happen, then. Unless we make a trip down there to visit relatives and you happen to live in the Clearwater/Tampa or Ft. Myers area... Long, long shot, I know!
Otherwise, it sounds like Historic Enterprises will soon be offering true grande assiette-style arming cottes, which might very well serve your needs.
I'd like to stick my head into the room and announce that I have NOT forgotten anyone who has expressed interest in getting one of these from me... Otto, you are on that list as well. I plan to post my official production queue in the next week or so, and I just secured the help of Master John McGuire, my regular Pennsic camp host and garb laurel, to take muslin pattern blocks on-site at the war for anyone attending who is in the queue.
Anyhoo, though I am all in favor of friendly competition, and while you are all free to choose your own supplier, I would like to put in a plea for any of y'all who have placed a tentative order with me to not all go jumping ship to Gwen's waiting list, unless we can reach a firm understanding that I can't fulfill your order in a reasonable time. Thanks for your support and patience!
Meister Klaus Rother, O.L., Baron von Schweinichen Klein und kaputt, aber noch gut.
I'll second Klaus' request- if you are in Klaus' queue, please honor your commitment to him. Besides which, he's already got something in the hopper and my pattern is still in the drafting stage.
Oppps, sorry Klaus, In the heat of the moment, I'd forgoten I was on your list. My bad... Seems like I've tried to get one of these things for years, and have had a heck of a time finding anyone who will do them. I've followed so many leads that I forgot yours panned out.And I could be just a little senile, being a old dottering coot....Otto
No worries, Otto- I think the sight of a little competition on the horizon is good for my motivation anyway. Gwen, thanks for the support. I look forward to seeing your interpretation of this garment side by side with mine and Marcele's. Just as was true in period, there are bound to be as many "right" ways to make a pourpoint as there are tailors with the means to do it.
Vitus wrote:I was going to say that you have slimmed down quite a bit!
Thanks,
2 /12 years of not being able to run due to ankle injury (that I got while training for sprint for the Woods flag at Pennsic), I finnally was able to strart piling on the miles again this spring. Of course a couple of weeks ago I had to decide that running on an unimproved trail with a double pitch was fun, and now I"m back at square one again...
Now I just have to try to keep myself from putting more weight on until it heals.
The Revival Clothing arming clothes use a separate pourpoint because:
1. We feel that surviving arming coat/gambeson-like garments, as well as their more numerous period illustrations, have too much flare outward from the waist to the hips to make supporting the legs there realistic; the weight should be supported at the hips, and the garments are simply too loose there. This is a completely different situation, of course, in the mid-late 15th c., where we find very short and fitted arming doublets that clearly would have supported the leg harnesses.
2. Even if they weren't so tapered, reaching up under a relatively long and tightly buttoned garment to point up the legs from the inside doesn't seem reasonable. And there's no evidence to suggest the pointing of the legs to the outside of these garments.
Now, like most things involving period arming wear (or clothing in general!), there's a fair bit of assumption here. We've included pictorial references on our pourpoint page showing what we feel are likely candidates for such a garment.
I can also attest, as have others in this thread, that this setup works very very well. It's tremendously comfortable.
Were single garments used? Were two used? We may never know for sure. The answer may be that both schemes were used at one time or another. We're all in the process of interpreting scant data and drawing the best conclusions we can from it - these conclusions will naturally vary.
As Christian said there is no evidence to point to how it was done, but I have a very well fitted arming coat (cotehardie style) and I point my legs and arms to the one garment without and issue. But as Christian is saying a non-custom fit may not fit tight against you, mine fallows my body lines exactly. I just had to learn how tight to tie the cords holding up the legs to keep then from holding down my arms.
I'm getting ready to experiment with pointing my arms and legs to the same garment. I want to learn from other people's mistakes in this area, so I don't have to make them all myself.... A number of people have said this doesn't work for them because the weight of the legs restricts your arm movement. To those who expressed this view -- do you wear greaves? That seems like it would make a big difference.
In theory: if done properly, cased greaves should significantly reduce the amount of weight dragging down on the pourpoint. The demigreave should fit over one or two pins on the greave, which, being locked closely around the calf, should take the weight without being driven down onto the instep and ankle. The other part of the equation is having the cuisse and poleyn assembly strapped tightly to the leg in the right places, rather than just swingin' free from a belt as is the case with most flawed SCA armor.
I can only prove the "strapped correctly" part of the theory from my own experience, as I do not yet own cased greaves. Yet I can dream.
Meister Klaus Rother, O.L., Baron von Schweinichen Klein und kaputt, aber noch gut.
Update- any of you who were or are still interested in a sleeveless pourpoint from BSD (not the long sleeved Charles of Blois arming coat) please email me- there's news!
Heh. Us with the smaller waists aren't typically being well-served, either, Effingham... (which ain't no knock on Gwen and her really good stuff). I have a hell of a time convincing my tailor to kick out garments that actually hug my waist safe and tight like I want it to. Of course, she's in Poland, so it's hard long-distance...
Long, long shot, I know!
