How do they make this mail?

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:59 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 01271&rd=1

[img]http://www.azoncorporation.com/eVS201.jpg[/img]

These links are SOOO small! Outside diameter of .210 inches! That's crazy! How could they possibly sell such a thing, even if it is made by virtual slaves in some foreign nation, for such a low amount of money? 70,000 rings??? I believe it, looking at that picture! Also, how it is so light? 4.5 lbs! I don't understand... It doens't seem realistic... Can I get an explanation?

Thanks.

-Gregory-

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:07 pm

Hello.

They use machines. These are the same material as butcherÃ‚Â´s aprons, it is manufactured in sheets, then tailored. The seem to have them manufactured in India as well, besides Indian butted and rivetted maille butcherÃ‚Â´s maille seems to be the next import hit. A German LARP supplier is offering them as "mithril maille shirts";o)

Regards

Ivo

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:15 pm

Hey Ivo,

Thanks, that explains it! My friend Justin doesn't have a mail shirt, but the rings are much too small for his Viking Outfit, sadly... I wish I could find a shirt that light, and that inexpensive for him of butted mail! I got my shirt for $120, but it weighs 30 lbs...

-Gregory-

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:09 pm

Hello.

I got my butted maille shirt from ebay at 100 Euros...sometimes it pays to be a skinny guy. The XL / XXL ones cause a bid war and ended up at 200- 250 Euros...Indian butted starting at 1 Euro, that is;o)

Regards

Ivo

DAVID01 · Post by **DAVID01** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:24 pm

I've seen this stuff listed in chain mail at ebay and said to be of Gay interest :shock:

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:39 pm

Just browse ebay for "harness" and youÃ‚Â´ll find leather accessories;o)

DAVID01 · Post by **DAVID01** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:07 pm

Ivo wrote:Just browse ebay for "harness" and youÃ‚Â´ll find leather accessories;o)

Did you get one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 43941&rd=1

:shock:

LOL

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:13 am

Azon Corporation sells this shirt among others. I knew the thing looked familiar.

http://www.azoncorporation.com/Body_Armorx.htm -- scroll down to see the VS201 shirt -- that's your boy.

Might as well add in their homepage. It appears Azon not only sells, but makes. http://www.azoncorporation.com/New_AZONx.htm

Mike F · Post by **Mike F** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:53 am

Does anyone have any pictures or info on those machines? I'd like to see if I can figure out one for riveted maille.

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:49 am

Hello.

Azon are actually selling them;o)

Regards

Ivo

iaenmor · Post by **iaenmor** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:20 am

Meaddrinker, that seems to be an awfully complicated way to hold on a cup. :twisted:

DAVID01 · Post by **DAVID01** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:14 pm

Yea, thats what "I" thought :lol:

DAVID01 · Post by **DAVID01** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:22 pm

Konstantin the Red wrote:Azon Corporation sells this shirt among others. I knew the thing looked familiar.

http://www.azoncorporation.com/Body_Armorx.htm -- scroll down to see the VS201 shirt -- that's your boy.

Might as well add in their homepage. It appears Azon not only sells, but makes. http://www.azoncorporation.com/New_AZONx.htm

Wish I had a pair of those gloves when I was a fish skinner, I might not have stuck that buck fillet knife through my thumb :shock:

. These would have been great when we used to race to see who could skin and gut a 135# basket the fastest.

Thomas H · Post by **Thomas H** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:41 pm

I know someone who used to play that finger dodging game in a maille glove. they really do work very well, hit his fingers countless times and never got a scratch just some pretty patterns from the rings.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:53 pm

I've seen people make maille like that (maybe even smaller) by hand. Check out TRL's forum and search for micro and macro maille.

Cat

morristh · Post by **morristh** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:05 pm

But, how "authentic" is this maille. I understand that the SS is out, and so is the welding--we are going to sacrifice a tad in that regard. But it this ring size represented in any era within the context of the SCA? It looks gauzzy, but it certianly is light, and if one was to say have transitional plate over it--CoP, full arms, full legs. bascinet and aventail-would this be "acceptable"?

Tim

Thomas H · Post by **Thomas H** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:07 pm

I don't think there's anything historical about that maille except that it is made from rings TBH.

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:29 pm

The problem with this maille, aside from being electro-welded and stainless steel, is that the wire is so thin the maille ends up looking like gauze. It just doesn't have a historical look to it.

Steve

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:47 pm

But MAN I bet it's fun to play with!! Compress, stretch, compress, stretch....not that I..... do that or... anything.....

JoeMick · Post by **JoeMick** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:42 am

I just got back from a trip to the Philadelphia Museum of Art, and of course I spent my time in the armour exhibit. There were three suits of chain there, and two of them were rings of that size. The links were that small, riveted! One was Persian in origin, the other Germanic (I think). One appeared definitly to be tiny flattened rings, the other looked roundish (but man they were small, it was hard to tell !).

cheers
Joe

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:42 am

Cat wrote:But MAN I bet it's fun to play with!! Compress, stretch, compress, stretch....not that I..... do that or... anything.....

Cat, quit that!

You know darn well the sensual qualities of mail fabric are why any of us that don't run screaming from E4-1 fondle the stuff!

We know there just isn't anything else out there that behaves like mail -- absolutely no body, tremendous weight per m², wears like iron -- and fine links flow nice and smooth. Knitted string isn't in it.

The link ID is on the small end for historical precedents, which quit at about 1/8" ID, for reasons of practicality in handling the link to rivet -- too teensy a link is hard to overlap enough for riveting -- but a link not quite a fifth of an inch ID is bigger than an eighth. What keeps the stuff from looking historic aside from the whiteness of stainless steel is that the wire isn't even somewhat flattened, so the fish-scale reflection is much diminished.

Perhaps the medievalist would be better served with such shirts in Azon's #100-series weave, which they offer -- a denser AR and a slightly heavier shirt.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:52 am

I wear one under my vest most nights. Espically on the weekend.

It will stop a spydeco folding knife for sure.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:00 am

morristh wrote:. . . I understand that the SS is out, and so is the welding--we are going to sacrifice a tad in that regard. But it this ring size represented in any era within the context of the SCA? It looks gauzy, but it certainly is light, and if one was to say have transitional plate over it--CoP, full arms, full legs. bascinet and aventail-would this be "acceptable"?

Tim

Considering the SCA's, um, broadmindedness on the subject, I'd answer "yes." It is just over the border between "historical" and "sport" armor, less authentic mail than high-performance mail. It would go very well with an all-stainless harnois blanc -- un harnois trÃƒÂ¨s blanc, if you will. I'd go a little later than CoP, though, but that is in large measure because I think globose BPs look better.

The historical, proven-by-example use of very fine mail links is, AFAIK, in mail brayettes -- they wanted their boyz protected if something went drastically wrong, like lance shards heading for the femoral artery and neighboring regions, and they wanted 'em comfortable too. I imagine a similar view was taken of voiders, at least in times later than the late Transitional period.

Thomas Powers · Post by **Thomas Powers** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:13 pm

There is some very fine *butted* parade maile in "Heroic Armour of the Italian Renaissance" (Hope I got that right---it's the Negroli book)

Thomas

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:17 pm

Konstantin,
I... can't.... help it. I think.... I'm addicted. "Hi, my name's Cat, and I'm a maille a holic."

I need help.

Saint-Sever · Post by **Saint-Sever** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:36 pm

Murdock wrote:I wear one under my vest most nights. Espically on the weekend.

It will stop a spydeco folding knife for sure.

Aren't you worried about the links becoming secondary projectiles if a bullet hits you in the armpit or between the panels? It'd be like having a contact detonation by a 20mm shell-- tissue in the impact area turned to mush because of dozens of additional wound-tracks from the maille links spraying out from the point of impact.

Eeew.

M.

Mike F · Post by **Mike F** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:54 pm

I think he's more worried about a knife than a bullet. Besides, the way vests absorb energy (by deforming into your chest) this would probably helm, due to disappation of energy, mass, and (comparative) rigidity.

Besides, bullet proof vests are about being taken to the hospital breathing versus staying in the fight.

Saint-Sever · Post by **Saint-Sever** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:56 pm

Agreed, but vest coverage isn't 100% over the torso, and Murphy loooves the PO-lice. If I was wearing maille under a vest, I'd be counting on the bullet missing the vest and hitting the maille-- thank you, Mr. Murphy, sir.

If it ain't one threat, it's another......

M.

Mike F · Post by **Mike F** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:16 pm

Interesting point, but consdiering where the vest doesn't cover, I think the bullet would be rather lethal in either case.

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:23 pm

Commence thread derailment sequence accompianied by minor rant:

Is there an e-bay rule that says if I'm going to model mail in a picture for an auction that I have to be nude underneath so everyone can see my flabby man-boobs? WTF? Why the hell does every monkey trying to pawn a chain shirt have to flash his fat beer gut to us? Get a model, get a tunic, get a t-shirt, get a trash bag and cut arm holes in it.

End sequence.

How do they make this mail?

How do they make this mail?

tiny mail