The Armour Archive

Continued from "weight of helmets" topic:

Steve -SoFC- wrote:

Weights of SCA helmets are typically 1/3 heavier, to almost double the weight of originals, for two factors 1. a desire not to have the helmet beaten up in recreational combat, and 2. a belief current that heavier helmets are less likely to lead to concussions as the wearer is being whalloped in the head.

Another reason for the heavier weight of SCA combat helms is the extra mass makes them harder to move. Thus it is not necessarily the ability to resist deformation that makes it safer, it is it's resistance to quick accelleration (due to impact) that makes it safer.

Steve

I agree with both of you, but I think it is important for us to quantify the desireable weight rather than talking about "more weight" and "less weight". I think that an adequately dent-resistant helm could be made of hardened steel or titanium and weigh less than 5 pounds, but that would be too little mass and make the wearer prone to concussion even with the best padding/suspension. On the other end of the range, a helm of 10 gauge mild steel with lots of overlapping metal (like a spangenhelm) will weigh enough to strain neck and back muscles and increase the risk of injury in a fall. I think that the ideal weight for a helm used in SCA combat, excluding the part of an aventail that rests on the shoulders, is roughly 7-10 pounds. This is within the range of medieval helms as I understand it. I'd like to hear from other fighters/armourers on this subject.

On the issue of padding or suspension, several of us have posted repeatedly on the evils of foam and the desireability of a linen liner stuffed with natural materials. A quick search of the forum will provide a wealth of information on this topic.

I understand how a suspension liner protects from vertical impacts, but I don't see how it will protect from all angles of horizontal impact. I'd like to see a description and sketch or picture of such a suspension liner.

Maelgwyn wrote:I understand how a suspension liner protects from vertical impacts, but I don't see how it will protect from all angles of horizontal impact. I'd like to see a description and sketch or picture of such a suspension liner.

Most construction hard hats have a decent susspension that will protect from horizontal. At least the ones I ever wore did.

Maelgwyn wrote:On the issue of padding or suspension, several of us have posted repeatedly on the evils of foam and the desireability of a linen liner stuffed with natural materials. A quick search of the forum will provide a wealth of information on this topic.

I understand how a suspension liner protects from vertical impacts, but I don't see how it will protect from all angles of horizontal impact. I'd like to see a description and sketch or picture of such a suspension liner.

mmm. The nature of a properly designed suspension system is that it maintains the helm at a set position relative to your head. So it's not just a matter of protection from a downward impact on the crown - it's also going to provide protection against a lateral impact on the side.

I believe I understand your concern however, in that a suspension system lacks leverage when a blow lands *below* the level of the suspension. At that point, the entire helm can be shifted because impact is not distributed evenly by the suspension system. This is also a weakness in most systems of padding a helm that I am aware of.

Gavin

I don't think any pure suspension system will ever be sufficient for SCA combat. Many folks have made "suspension" helmet liners for SCA helms, but these liners, while in fact "suspended" by virtue of being sewn to the bottom of the helm, must also be padded, and derive their protective value from being padded more than from keeping the metal off of your skull.

A suspension system by itself will not prevent the helm from displacing and coming into contact with the suspension, and consequently with your head. The liner or the helm must be padded.

Steve

Even frogmouth helms had both.