large pauldron question
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Stoffel
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large pauldron question
I'm working on a pair of large pauldrons, the ones that likd of look like a set of butterfly wings when you first cut them out. I've got the main plate, and the articulation up to the neck, but I am wondering about the upper arm articulation. The first time I made them, I used a pair of spaulders under them, attached to an arming point, but was told that was incorrect. I noticed in pictures that the top lame of the upper arms plates isnt dished very much, and appears to be hard rivited to the main pauldron. Is this correct, and are the other upper arm plates hard rivited as well? If so, how much movement do you get with them?
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wcallen
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These are not the best pics, but this one can at least start the conversation.
<oops forgot the picture>
http://allenantiques.com/tmp/90_v.jpg
It is easier to see what is happening from the bak anyway, since the front is usually covered up by the extra plate.
The pauldrons are really put together in two ways. The upper plates are attached to each other and then the main plate (in this case the top 3 plates) the same way later ones are - pivoting rivets near the ends of the plates. This allows the arm to be raised.
The lower plates are a different story. First, they keep overlapping upwards (unlike later pauldrons where the bottom plates usually lap downwards - ignoring Greenwich and Augsburg for the moment). They are held together by leathers in the front (to allow them to move together), a sliding rivet in the oddest place (you can see it in the picture about in line with the edge of the upper vambrace plate) and a leather strap at the back just to keep things lined up.
Since I don't have any to sell, I will put in one more free plug - Mantova shows several sets of these from various angles - some missing some plates - so you can really see what is going on.
I will let people who play in them more discuss the mobility (mine mostly sit on the dummy).
Wade
[This message has been edited by wcallen (edited 02-15-2002).]
<oops forgot the picture>
http://allenantiques.com/tmp/90_v.jpg
It is easier to see what is happening from the bak anyway, since the front is usually covered up by the extra plate.
The pauldrons are really put together in two ways. The upper plates are attached to each other and then the main plate (in this case the top 3 plates) the same way later ones are - pivoting rivets near the ends of the plates. This allows the arm to be raised.
The lower plates are a different story. First, they keep overlapping upwards (unlike later pauldrons where the bottom plates usually lap downwards - ignoring Greenwich and Augsburg for the moment). They are held together by leathers in the front (to allow them to move together), a sliding rivet in the oddest place (you can see it in the picture about in line with the edge of the upper vambrace plate) and a leather strap at the back just to keep things lined up.
Since I don't have any to sell, I will put in one more free plug - Mantova shows several sets of these from various angles - some missing some plates - so you can really see what is going on.
I will let people who play in them more discuss the mobility (mine mostly sit on the dummy).
Wade
[This message has been edited by wcallen (edited 02-15-2002).]
I imagine it may depend on exactly which ones you are making. Mine are Milanese, yours may be different.
The large plate, and the 2 above it have sliding rivets on the rear, a strap down the center, and a strap towards the front edge.
The tandy rivets get put in under the overlap, so they aren't visible except on the main plate. On the front edge, there are "false" rivets. They are located about the same as the sliding rivets (they are optional). They are there for looks only, as they are flush on the back side. In period they may have been used to hold the plates together for tempering- limiting the warping when quenched.
The lower three plates on the arm are attached with three (could be two) straps that connect to the two straps on the center and forward side of the upper pauldron. The strap to the rear attaches to the large plate in line with the others, since above that are the sliding rivets.
Putting the straps in is a pain in the butt. Don't just lay the straps in the pauldrons from the rear, they will gap. The straps go from point to point in a straight line, when you are done, that is the way Mr. Gravity likes it. If you lay them in flat, you will get gaps. in the upper plates.
Mobility? I can pretty much touch my thumbs to the opposite ears. I have not noticed much, if any limitation in my range of motion.
The large plate, and the 2 above it have sliding rivets on the rear, a strap down the center, and a strap towards the front edge.
The tandy rivets get put in under the overlap, so they aren't visible except on the main plate. On the front edge, there are "false" rivets. They are located about the same as the sliding rivets (they are optional). They are there for looks only, as they are flush on the back side. In period they may have been used to hold the plates together for tempering- limiting the warping when quenched.
The lower three plates on the arm are attached with three (could be two) straps that connect to the two straps on the center and forward side of the upper pauldron. The strap to the rear attaches to the large plate in line with the others, since above that are the sliding rivets.
Putting the straps in is a pain in the butt. Don't just lay the straps in the pauldrons from the rear, they will gap. The straps go from point to point in a straight line, when you are done, that is the way Mr. Gravity likes it. If you lay them in flat, you will get gaps. in the upper plates.
Mobility? I can pretty much touch my thumbs to the opposite ears. I have not noticed much, if any limitation in my range of motion.
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Stoffel
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maybe I explained wrong in the original post. by large pauldrons, I meant larger than the ones that where about the size of a regular pair of spaulders. As in, this is what I am working on. (sorry for the large size, no matter how much I crop it, when I upload it, it gets larger).
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wcallen
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Compared to the ones I thought you were talking about, this one is SMALL. I assumed you were talking about the big angel-wing pauldrons that cross in the back. They are put together the same way we have now described (so our descriptions aren't quite the same.... 
). This is just sort of a pauldron.
Let's back up a step. What period and country are you working on (within a 10 year period, not a century) and we can add further details.
Wade
). This is just sort of a pauldron.Let's back up a step. What period and country are you working on (within a 10 year period, not a century) and we can add further details.
Wade
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Prince Of Darkmoor
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Stoffel
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[img]http://someplacesomewhere.com/uploaded/Stoffel/Dcp_0103.jpg[/img]
here, this may make sizing it a little easier. Its not too large, in fact, quite small. I'm going for a later period 15th century italian style. This pauldron is just a soldier grade prototype of the pattern, for a suit I am working on. Right now I'm just trying to figure out basically how it all goes together, so that when the guy ok's me to start on his suit, I can have it done before gulfwars.
here, this may make sizing it a little easier. Its not too large, in fact, quite small. I'm going for a later period 15th century italian style. This pauldron is just a soldier grade prototype of the pattern, for a suit I am working on. Right now I'm just trying to figure out basically how it all goes together, so that when the guy ok's me to start on his suit, I can have it done before gulfwars.
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wcallen
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What you have there mostly closely resembles a mid 16th century pauldron (or even later). At that point the thing that changes most is the lines of the edge.
There are a few pair from the early 16th century that might come close to that, and we can duscuss how they go together if you really want to do ealy 16th century (the first thing you would do is leave off the roll on the edge - the early pauldrons do not have rolls on their outer edge that way.
If you really want late-ish 15th century low end you should probably make ones like the pair on the composed harness (formery in the) Tower of London. They are a simple pauldron without the extra large left side for cavalry use. I am sure someone could dig up a picture if that is the way you want to go (my scanner is dead at the moment or I would scan them). These are on the harness illustraed on plate VII of the 'European Armour in the Tower of London' book.
wade
There are a few pair from the early 16th century that might come close to that, and we can duscuss how they go together if you really want to do ealy 16th century (the first thing you would do is leave off the roll on the edge - the early pauldrons do not have rolls on their outer edge that way.
If you really want late-ish 15th century low end you should probably make ones like the pair on the composed harness (formery in the) Tower of London. They are a simple pauldron without the extra large left side for cavalry use. I am sure someone could dig up a picture if that is the way you want to go (my scanner is dead at the moment or I would scan them). These are on the harness illustraed on plate VII of the 'European Armour in the Tower of London' book.
wade