I have been looking at a lot of period helms
lately, and most of the helms that have a central ridge or crest have a little half circle pice cut out of them. I noticed this on the helm that Valconnan purchased and posted pics of. Why is that little half circle notch cut out?
Crests or ridges on the top of period helms
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wcallen
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I am assuming that you are talking about the little hole in the top of the crest on 15th century and some early 16th century helmets - mainly the Italian ones.
If so....
It was actually a key-hole shape.
It was used to hold on a crest holder.
The crest holder was basically a bar with the bottom part split into 3 pieces. These were sprung apart slightly so that the knob on the bottom would lock into the keyhole. The other end was threaded to allow a ball with feathers or some other ornate thing to be attached.
Wade
If so....
It was actually a key-hole shape.
It was used to hold on a crest holder.
The crest holder was basically a bar with the bottom part split into 3 pieces. These were sprung apart slightly so that the knob on the bottom would lock into the keyhole. The other end was threaded to allow a ball with feathers or some other ornate thing to be attached.
Wade
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Otto von Teich
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Michael Shedden
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Hi Wade, do you have any pictures of these on sallets? I've seen many side shots etc, where the presence of the hole is visible but I've never actually been able to see the shape of it.
I'm somewhat close to finishing a raised German sallet, and I was thinking including provisions for a crest. I don't have the reasearch material available though to know what it should look like.
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Michael Shedden
http://www.barbute.com/armour
I'm somewhat close to finishing a raised German sallet, and I was thinking including provisions for a crest. I don't have the reasearch material available though to know what it should look like.
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Michael Shedden
http://www.barbute.com/armour
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wcallen
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There are at least some that are round, but I think they were more normally key-holed (that helps keep your feathers from spinning 
).
One picture I have here has the slot going back from the round hole. If memory serves that is the way it normally worked - but there is no reason it wouldn't work either way.
Wade
).One picture I have here has the slot going back from the round hole. If memory serves that is the way it normally worked - but there is no reason it wouldn't work either way.
Wade
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wcallen
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Just in case anyone cares. More looking. Most of them are keyholes - with the slot going back. Sometimes the slot is large and easily seen from the side, sometimes it is narrow (like on Henry's silvered and engraved harness), so it is almost invisible from the side.
These are normally on armets, salads and barbutes.
Wade
These are normally on armets, salads and barbutes.
Wade
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chef de chambre
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Hi Wade & all,
Just to add some information. I believe the "crest holder" photographed in the Churburg is actually a banderole post for the top of the helmet - a la the Master of W.A. engravings, the Burgundian ordinances requirement for officers (The Churburg was located in a part of the old Duchy of Savoy, was it not?), and numerous mid 15th century illuminations from copies of Froissart, The Life of Alexander the Great, and The Chronicles of Hainault. Not to mention a series of St. Georges from the third quarter of the century, ranging from Flanders to Eastern France.
The reason I think this is the heigth of the post, and the fact it matches the shape of these posts shown in art of the period pretty exactly. Jeff Hedgecock made one for my armet, and the end with the threading has threading, and a fleuron finial of gilt bronze tightend down over it.
Normal orbs or "pommes" as they were known sit tight to the helm, and aren't as tall. Witness the Beauchamp pagent, and any number of other similar sources. Mac thinks they were hollow brass commonly, and I successfully made one by turning it out of Walnut and gilding it. A simple peg with the side near the shaft shaven to accomodate the shape of the helmets keel suffices to keep the orb secure. I think either solution to be "period" - many seem to have molded and gilt cuir-bolli bases covering a bit of the top of the helmet. These things seem to have held from one to a bunch of simple ostrich spades (occasionaly peacock, from the length of feathers). The crest holder couldn't possibly hold one of these low lying orbs, but the keyhole slot works admirably for the purpose.
There is a varient of tall (presumably) cuir-bolli "panache" holders, shown in the "Route of San Romano", and Pisanello's murals - c 1440, which hold wild bunches of awkward looking feather constructs. The "crest holder" could equally form the base of one of these.
Another possible use for the Churburg crest holder is to hold a cuir bolli crest on a great bascinet in tournament, a la the "Beauchamp Pagent" tournament scenes, with the Earl of Warwicks holding the bear & ragged staff. You don't see these in battlefield use, but commonly in tournament depictions of foot combat, also the club tourney - but in both cases, normal battlefield helms of the time are not normally used for the purpose.
I believe the tall post to be intended for double use - to either hold a pennant or banderole, or to equally form the core of a cuirbolli construct. In any case, there is no way ic could form the base for the 'pommes' normally depicted on combat helmets, as the orb or pomme lies directly atop the skull of the helmet.
To get a tall banderole post to function correcty, a wooden wedge tightly fitting the width oof the slot is wedged into one of the forks of the split at the bottom. Mine was unstable, and would "wobble" a bit, until Mac remembered reading a description of perparing a crest, and recommended the method to me. It now functions perfectly - I use a simple wedge of basswood for the purpose, cut slightly larger than the keyhole side, so it fits like a cork in a bottle. Needs replacing with wear about every six months, but works briliantly.
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Bob R.
Just to add some information. I believe the "crest holder" photographed in the Churburg is actually a banderole post for the top of the helmet - a la the Master of W.A. engravings, the Burgundian ordinances requirement for officers (The Churburg was located in a part of the old Duchy of Savoy, was it not?), and numerous mid 15th century illuminations from copies of Froissart, The Life of Alexander the Great, and The Chronicles of Hainault. Not to mention a series of St. Georges from the third quarter of the century, ranging from Flanders to Eastern France.
The reason I think this is the heigth of the post, and the fact it matches the shape of these posts shown in art of the period pretty exactly. Jeff Hedgecock made one for my armet, and the end with the threading has threading, and a fleuron finial of gilt bronze tightend down over it.
Normal orbs or "pommes" as they were known sit tight to the helm, and aren't as tall. Witness the Beauchamp pagent, and any number of other similar sources. Mac thinks they were hollow brass commonly, and I successfully made one by turning it out of Walnut and gilding it. A simple peg with the side near the shaft shaven to accomodate the shape of the helmets keel suffices to keep the orb secure. I think either solution to be "period" - many seem to have molded and gilt cuir-bolli bases covering a bit of the top of the helmet. These things seem to have held from one to a bunch of simple ostrich spades (occasionaly peacock, from the length of feathers). The crest holder couldn't possibly hold one of these low lying orbs, but the keyhole slot works admirably for the purpose.
There is a varient of tall (presumably) cuir-bolli "panache" holders, shown in the "Route of San Romano", and Pisanello's murals - c 1440, which hold wild bunches of awkward looking feather constructs. The "crest holder" could equally form the base of one of these.
Another possible use for the Churburg crest holder is to hold a cuir bolli crest on a great bascinet in tournament, a la the "Beauchamp Pagent" tournament scenes, with the Earl of Warwicks holding the bear & ragged staff. You don't see these in battlefield use, but commonly in tournament depictions of foot combat, also the club tourney - but in both cases, normal battlefield helms of the time are not normally used for the purpose.
I believe the tall post to be intended for double use - to either hold a pennant or banderole, or to equally form the core of a cuirbolli construct. In any case, there is no way ic could form the base for the 'pommes' normally depicted on combat helmets, as the orb or pomme lies directly atop the skull of the helmet.
To get a tall banderole post to function correcty, a wooden wedge tightly fitting the width oof the slot is wedged into one of the forks of the split at the bottom. Mine was unstable, and would "wobble" a bit, until Mac remembered reading a description of perparing a crest, and recommended the method to me. It now functions perfectly - I use a simple wedge of basswood for the purpose, cut slightly larger than the keyhole side, so it fits like a cork in a bottle. Needs replacing with wear about every six months, but works briliantly.
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Bob R.
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Michael Shedden
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Thanks for the information. It sounds pretty simple.
Now, the question is, are there any simple crests? I have seen pictures of yours Chef, and it looks great. Is there any evidence of crests without tall posts, or pommes? More like, "stick some feathers in your hat"?
I may not actually put a crest on this helm anyways. I'd like to know for future reference though.
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Michael Shedden
http://www.barbute.com/armour
Now, the question is, are there any simple crests? I have seen pictures of yours Chef, and it looks great. Is there any evidence of crests without tall posts, or pommes? More like, "stick some feathers in your hat"?
I may not actually put a crest on this helm anyways. I'd like to know for future reference though.
------------------
Michael Shedden
http://www.barbute.com/armour
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chef de chambre
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Hi Michael,
The St. Mary's Sallet in Coventry originally had a hollow gilt brass tube set on the top, made to look like the stem of an apple. with a couple of little 'roots' on either side of the bowl. Teeny-tiney - it'd just about hold one feather. There is a Flemish St. George with a plume holder set in the upper part of the visor dead center (an Italian export sallet), In the picture I believe it holds two plumes.
The "pomme" is the most common form - heck, you can even ger a large-ish wooden orb from a craft shop, drill the center out, and gild it without too much trouble. It usually only held a feather or two.
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Bob R.
The St. Mary's Sallet in Coventry originally had a hollow gilt brass tube set on the top, made to look like the stem of an apple. with a couple of little 'roots' on either side of the bowl. Teeny-tiney - it'd just about hold one feather. There is a Flemish St. George with a plume holder set in the upper part of the visor dead center (an Italian export sallet), In the picture I believe it holds two plumes.
The "pomme" is the most common form - heck, you can even ger a large-ish wooden orb from a craft shop, drill the center out, and gild it without too much trouble. It usually only held a feather or two.
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Bob R.