I have sent an email off to mrks who seems to be the resident titanium expert, but I was wondering if anyone else had experience with working titanium. I'm planning on making myself some arms and gauntlets from Ti here in the near future and I want to know what I'm getting myself into. Thanks.
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Posters like you are the reason I wish computers came with a 'bitchslap' key.
Salinas Swordsman
Darkmoor Armoury
Anyone worked with Titanium before?
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Prince Of Darkmoor
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Prince Of Darkmoor:
..snip...I want to know what I'm getting myself into.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Um.... you're getting yourself into Titanium perhaps?
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Are you trying to be insulting, or just merely stupid?
..snip...I want to know what I'm getting myself into.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Um.... you're getting yourself into Titanium perhaps?
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Are you trying to be insulting, or just merely stupid?
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Mad Matt
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Andy ward makes TI Gaunts.
And if you've got any questions for TI fighters I'd ask Luke if I were you. He cheats and uses the force but he might have some good tips anyway.
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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory
[This message has been edited by Mad Matt (edited 02-21-2002).]
And if you've got any questions for TI fighters I'd ask Luke if I were you. He cheats and uses the force but he might have some good tips anyway.
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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory
[This message has been edited by Mad Matt (edited 02-21-2002).]
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Connor McEldridge
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PoD,
I have a pair of Ti gauntlets. Although I didn't personally make them. But the armorer that did said they were a little harder to deal with. One thing was that they could only be folded over so far before ther stressed. And they gave off some pretty white sparks when being cut with a blade.
As far as functionality, they are great.
Light weight, strong, shots seem to bounce off of them, where as they seemed to 'stick' to steel. I couldn't be happier with mine.
I have a pair of Ti gauntlets. Although I didn't personally make them. But the armorer that did said they were a little harder to deal with. One thing was that they could only be folded over so far before ther stressed. And they gave off some pretty white sparks when being cut with a blade.
As far as functionality, they are great.
Light weight, strong, shots seem to bounce off of them, where as they seemed to 'stick' to steel. I couldn't be happier with mine.
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Thaddeus
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I remember talking with Andy Ward about his. Maybe Adam could chime in as he was there too. I seem to recall that Andy used heat to form the gauntlets and that there was a very narrow band of working tempurature which happened to be very close to the point where the sheet metal would burn through. He said you have a very short working window, rather like forge welding. After which you might as well be pounding on well titanium. I think he was achieving good results with a oxy-acetaline rig set up on a gas saver. Dont remember what temps were discussed, but I suspect it was on the upper end of the torches range.
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Prince Of Darkmoor
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) and the only complex forming that will be required is with dishing the knuckle plate.-
Gundo
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You're going to want to heat it up to make that knuckle plate. You may succeed without heat, but you're going to want it. Bad.
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Gundobad,
Wise Ogre Armory
'Soylens viridis homines est.'
A position worth taking, is worth defending.
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Gundobad,
Wise Ogre Armory
'Soylens viridis homines est.'
A position worth taking, is worth defending.
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HappyRhino
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Greetings,
I have made a few pieces out of Ti (principally my lamellar). When I was doing it I looked into dishing and talked a lot with Andy. Cold Ti can only be bent a little ways before it will stress and crack. Further if you are dealing with small pieces you won't have much luck dishing them cold since the stuff bounces back like it was rubber. I was able to get about a 15 degree angle into the 1.5" wide strips that I used on my vambraces with a vice and a 5 lb hammer.
The other thing to look at is the type of Ti you get. If you get CP1 (the softest kind) you can use it pretty well and get a good work hardness out of it. If you get something like CP3 or Ti6AL4v you will have created a bunch more work for yourself.
Lukas
I have made a few pieces out of Ti (principally my lamellar). When I was doing it I looked into dishing and talked a lot with Andy. Cold Ti can only be bent a little ways before it will stress and crack. Further if you are dealing with small pieces you won't have much luck dishing them cold since the stuff bounces back like it was rubber. I was able to get about a 15 degree angle into the 1.5" wide strips that I used on my vambraces with a vice and a 5 lb hammer.
The other thing to look at is the type of Ti you get. If you get CP1 (the softest kind) you can use it pretty well and get a good work hardness out of it. If you get something like CP3 or Ti6AL4v you will have created a bunch more work for yourself.
Lukas
A good friend in our Barony has started to produce titanium. One thing he does is he works it hot. Using an open coal forge and some metal dishing shapes. The 18ga TI gauntlets he makes have had no problems to this day. If you send me your email I can resend it to him and see if he can give you some pointers.
Arland
Arland
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Prince Of Darkmoor
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Everyone:
Thanks a lot for your help. I had previously thought that working the titanium cold was a viable option, but will be sure to drop a few pieces into the forge to work them easier.
Is titanium as easily prone to cracking like aluminum? Arland, I'll email you, thanks.
------------------
Posters like you are the reason I wish computers came with a 'bitchslap' key.
Salinas Swordsman
Darkmoor Armoury
Thanks a lot for your help. I had previously thought that working the titanium cold was a viable option, but will be sure to drop a few pieces into the forge to work them easier.
Is titanium as easily prone to cracking like aluminum? Arland, I'll email you, thanks.
------------------
Posters like you are the reason I wish computers came with a 'bitchslap' key.
Salinas Swordsman
Darkmoor Armoury
Hi PoD
I have been gone alot lately and am traveling again tonight.
the advice above is very relevent.
working Titanium:
working Titanium:
titanium dust is explosive and the vapors can be poisonous due to alloying metals. I dry grind Ti in a vacuum box running at 900 cubic feet per minute... greatly reducing the chance of a dust explosion.
when dry ground the sparks can burn like magnesium so use a welder filter for your eyes... 4 or 6 should do.
titanium britalizes(becomes brittle) when heated and exposed to a hydrogen atmosphere. the hydrogen atoms disrupt the Ti lattice weakening it. limit the exposure time to hydrogen when heating. a gas forge is the worst. note... Ti can burn in oxygen. so an oxygen rich atmosphere will cause a large dangerous fire and destruction of your piece.
ti can be welded with the right wire in an argon atmosphere using a tig welder. now if only I had a tig.....
the percent elongation of the metal is six to twelve percent. it can be only dished/worked so far before it cracks like plastic. my few attempts at a shield boss resulted in a great piece but it cracked when tested with a large stick of rattan.
the weight savings comes from Ti being forty percent lighter than steel. additional weight reduction comes from using lighter gauges of metal. my Ti production knees are made up of .050 al6-4v Ti and are about 18 ga.
note: my personal harness including the legs(over four years old) and legs have never dented including four pennsics on the pickup field. the knee lames have been ground away at places by repeated practices on concrete yet still haven't cracked.
Ti is available on ebay.com search for 6 4 titanium 6 4 or the like. just looking for titanium will get you golf clubs trading cards and all other items using the description.
it will make great finger guants. the gadlings can be made cold without much trouble. however any finger tips will have to be worked hot. I have made a few prototypes but have yet to find a reliable method to produce the in quantity using my machines. one of my future projects. should take a few months.
Titanium can be drilled with a drill press use water as a coolant like when drilling stainless. high speed its will work but cobalt is better.
I prefer al6-4v Titanium alloy as it is harder than pure Titanium. pure Ti is called industrially pure and comes in grades. grade one is the most malleable and it gets harder and more brittle as the number gets larger. grade one can be bent by hand.
soft ti can be work hardened with good results. planishing it makes it harder and helps it to retain its shape.
titanium develops a twist very easily. hand work that is uneven will cause it to twist and be very frustrating to remove. this is one of the great benefits of dishing it by machine. the machine will work it so it is even all over.
Titanium can be hand worked with a heavy mallet. do not be afraid of it young Titanium jedi... for its force will work with you.
trust me its worth the effort.
mrks
pictures at: http://communities.msn.com/ScaMachineArmorors
I have been gone alot lately and am traveling again tonight.
the advice above is very relevent.
working Titanium:
working Titanium:
titanium dust is explosive and the vapors can be poisonous due to alloying metals. I dry grind Ti in a vacuum box running at 900 cubic feet per minute... greatly reducing the chance of a dust explosion.
when dry ground the sparks can burn like magnesium so use a welder filter for your eyes... 4 or 6 should do.
titanium britalizes(becomes brittle) when heated and exposed to a hydrogen atmosphere. the hydrogen atoms disrupt the Ti lattice weakening it. limit the exposure time to hydrogen when heating. a gas forge is the worst. note... Ti can burn in oxygen. so an oxygen rich atmosphere will cause a large dangerous fire and destruction of your piece.
ti can be welded with the right wire in an argon atmosphere using a tig welder. now if only I had a tig.....
the percent elongation of the metal is six to twelve percent. it can be only dished/worked so far before it cracks like plastic. my few attempts at a shield boss resulted in a great piece but it cracked when tested with a large stick of rattan.
the weight savings comes from Ti being forty percent lighter than steel. additional weight reduction comes from using lighter gauges of metal. my Ti production knees are made up of .050 al6-4v Ti and are about 18 ga.
note: my personal harness including the legs(over four years old) and legs have never dented including four pennsics on the pickup field. the knee lames have been ground away at places by repeated practices on concrete yet still haven't cracked.
Ti is available on ebay.com search for 6 4 titanium 6 4 or the like. just looking for titanium will get you golf clubs trading cards and all other items using the description.
it will make great finger guants. the gadlings can be made cold without much trouble. however any finger tips will have to be worked hot. I have made a few prototypes but have yet to find a reliable method to produce the in quantity using my machines. one of my future projects. should take a few months.
Titanium can be drilled with a drill press use water as a coolant like when drilling stainless. high speed its will work but cobalt is better.
I prefer al6-4v Titanium alloy as it is harder than pure Titanium. pure Ti is called industrially pure and comes in grades. grade one is the most malleable and it gets harder and more brittle as the number gets larger. grade one can be bent by hand.
soft ti can be work hardened with good results. planishing it makes it harder and helps it to retain its shape.
titanium develops a twist very easily. hand work that is uneven will cause it to twist and be very frustrating to remove. this is one of the great benefits of dishing it by machine. the machine will work it so it is even all over.
Titanium can be hand worked with a heavy mallet. do not be afraid of it young Titanium jedi... for its force will work with you.
trust me its worth the effort.
mrks
pictures at: http://communities.msn.com/ScaMachineArmorors
Last edited by mrks on Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I only have one thing to interject. Here are some stats for a Ti alloy that I copied off of matweb. Basically it is very resistant to hydrogen embrittlement, can be deeply dished even by cold working and is fully heat treatable. It is also the strongest and hardest alloy on the market.
The downside is that it's a little expensive. Best price I've found is $100 per pound, ten pound minimum. I think it's worth it!
<B>Titanium Ti-13V-11Cr-3Al
Subcategory: Beta Titanium Alloy; Metal; Nonferrous Metal; Titanium Alloy
Key Words: Ti-13-11-3; UNS R58010; B120VCA
Component Wt. % Al 3 Cr 11 Ti 73 V 13
Material Notes: Aged at 490 degrees, Alloy was solution treated before aging.
Physical Properties
Density 4.82 g/cc 0.174 lb/in³
Mechanical Properties
Hardness, Brinell 485 Estimated from Rockwell C.
Hardness, Knoop 535 Estimated from Rockwell C.
Hardness, Rockwell C 50
Hardness, Vickers 511 Estimated from Rockwell C.
Tensile Strength, Ultimate 1460 MPa/212000 psi
Tensile Strength, Yield 1300 MPa/189000 psi
Elongation @ break 23 %
Reduction of Area 6 %
Modulus of Elasticity 110 GPa/16000 ksi in tension.
Poisson's Ratio 0.3 annealed
Shear Modulus 43 GPa/6240 ksi Annealed sample </B>
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The Official M.A.I.L. Site
The downside is that it's a little expensive. Best price I've found is $100 per pound, ten pound minimum. I think it's worth it!
<B>Titanium Ti-13V-11Cr-3AlSubcategory: Beta Titanium Alloy; Metal; Nonferrous Metal; Titanium Alloy
Key Words: Ti-13-11-3; UNS R58010; B120VCA
Component Wt. % Al 3 Cr 11 Ti 73 V 13
Material Notes: Aged at 490 degrees, Alloy was solution treated before aging.
Physical Properties
Density 4.82 g/cc 0.174 lb/in³
Mechanical Properties
Hardness, Brinell 485 Estimated from Rockwell C.
Hardness, Knoop 535 Estimated from Rockwell C.
Hardness, Rockwell C 50
Hardness, Vickers 511 Estimated from Rockwell C.
Tensile Strength, Ultimate 1460 MPa/212000 psi
Tensile Strength, Yield 1300 MPa/189000 psi
Elongation @ break 23 %
Reduction of Area 6 %
Modulus of Elasticity 110 GPa/16000 ksi in tension.
Poisson's Ratio 0.3 annealed
Shear Modulus 43 GPa/6240 ksi Annealed sample </B>
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The Official M.A.I.L. Site