The Armour Archive

A Mail Shirt for all Reasons: Part II

Here's a short follow-up thread to one I started a few weeks back:

I was looking through Osprey's The Swiss at War 1300-1500 and Gerry Embleton has presented several illustrations showing soldiers in elbow-length mail shirts! At least one of the Schilling illustrations seems to show a figure in half sleeves. So does another contemporary illustration. The Osprey book also shows a line drawing (not a character portrayal) of an extant half-sleeved shirt believed to be 14-15 century. So it looks like a half sleeve shirt might be a viable option for me after all.

Another few things of note to the present discussion are in an article in the April/May 1988 no. 12 issue of Military Illustrated Past & Present entitled The Medieval Footsoldier 1460-85: (4) Body Protection; and Campaign Service[/b] by Clive Bartlett & Gerry Embleton. Regarding sleeve length, in Memling’s Reliquary of St. Ursula (1489) an archer is seen to be wearing a half-sleeved mail over a garment (maybe gambeson?) and under plate defenses. In the same image there’s a crossbowman wearing a long-sleeved mail.

Perhaps one of the most enlightening things in the article is a closeup photo of EXTANT 15th/16th century (date was estimated by authors) mail shows rivets & rings not unlike the medium quality flat ring [r]round riveted[/b] Indian-made stuff (i.e. King's Lance, et al).

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My current thought is to buy a round-riveted, flat ring,half sleeve, hip length shirt for use in my 1470's use. By far the best price on such a shirt is at Find-It Armory for $280. Still thinking though---and waiting for Forth Amoury to get their next batch of mail in.

Cheers,
Tim

I'm missing something: the problem born because someone told you that they wore only full sleeved maille? As i know, half sleeve became quite common as time proceed.

I think that maille is very decent and will look good for your stated purpose. I have been debating one of those shirts but I love the 8mm stuff H.E. is getting from GDFB and really want one of those. Of coarse I need a proper longbow and arrows first. I have a jack already and the maille would just enhance my total impression where the bow is a need.

Signo wrote:I'm missing something: the problem born because someone told you that they wore only full sleeved maille? As i know, half sleeve became quite common as time proceed.

Exactly. I was getting the idea that long sleeves and wedge rivets were dominant. But now I am beginning to see that half sleeves were also evident and that round rivets might be acceptable.

James B. wrote:I think that maille is very decent and will look good for your stated purpose. I have been debating one of those shirts but I love the 8mm stuff H.E. is getting from GDFB and really want one of those. Of coarse I need a proper longbow and arrows first. I have a jack already and the maille would just enhance my total impression where the bow is a need.

I can't even get a price on the HE shirts, which is frustrating. And they are listed as out-of-stock. I may have an extra longbow and some proper arrows...

Timothy_D_Finkas wrote:I can't even get a price on the HE shirts, which is frustrating. And they are listed as out-of-stock.

I talked to Jeff about my arms about a month or six weeks ago and he mentioned that he has more maille on the way so keep an eye out. The short sleeved shirt was $845 but who knows if the price will change.

Timothy_D_Finkas wrote:I may have an extra longbow and some proper arrows...

If you do please email me. All I have is a red oak bow and really want a historical bow to replace it. I was bummed to find out Saxon fox gave up the business since he had $200 ash bows Next best price is $375.

James B. wrote:...All I have is a red oak bow and really want a historical bow to replace it...

Are you saying your bow is the correct longbow SHAPE but not the correct longbow WOOD? I use a bow that is oak and hickory, laminated into a two-color wood that resembles a yew bow. I know it resembles a yew bow because I HAVE 2 yew longbows! However, yew longbows are somewhat delicate creatures and I prefer not to take mine out onto the re-enacting field.

You can gouge a yew bow with your fingernail. A hickory/oak lam bow is a bit more rugged. Since I am not an expert shooter, I find the differences in performance and cast to be negligable.

Cheers,
Tim

I wanted to go straight ash for price and for the fact yew is fickle but if you are looking to unload a yew bow at a good price I will not pass it up

My red oak bow is cut right but red oak looks so wrong. I got it before I started reenacting.

Your oak/ash mix sounds good too. For me the look and longevity of the item is what it's all about. So few people would know it's faked to look that way.

ya i'd go for correct cut and wrong wood if it would mean teh bow would last longer. let me know what u've found tim.