Forming double curves

Stoffel · Post by **Stoffel** » Wed Feb 27, 2002 9:48 pm

Ok, I have been trying to get this technique down for the last two days, and have failed miserably. I am trying to make a pair of mid period elbows, with the fans that come off the side wrapping around to the inside of the elbow. Like the elbows on this suit:
http://www.hammeredsteel.com/gaa/armour/periodpics/1500s/more1500/bellows_suit.JPG
Is there a certain tool I should try, or a certain mold I should carve into my stump? I tried dishing, but that didnt work, and when I tried to spread the metal out on the anvil to have it form in, I couldnt control the metal enough to get it to shape inwards in the one spot. Do I just need to practice more on controling the metal on the anvil?

Dalewyn · Post by **Dalewyn** » Wed Feb 27, 2002 9:53 pm

Raise them on a ball stake. You'll have better success raising mild steel than stainless, but stainless will raise as well.

------------------
Dalewyn
Dalewyn@dbis.ns.ca
www.AlchemyArmory.com

Sasha · Post by **Sasha** » Wed Feb 27, 2002 10:33 pm

Yep. They are dished in one direction and then shaped on a raising chisel (that is also how you get the stepping) to achieve the counter-forming.

Practice on some scrap before just trying it.

This is the technique of the small dainty blows from a small shaped and polished hammer. This will tend to work harden stainless really well so you will need to anneal it from time to time in order to keep shaping.

Good luck.

Sasha

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Wed Feb 27, 2002 11:30 pm

The first several pieces you try will probably be "scrap".

Stoffel · Post by **Stoffel** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:05 am

heh, scrap? yes, I believe so, thats why I finally just started cutting out fans instead of the whole coppe.

wcallen · Post by **wcallen** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:24 am

Your statements are all a little general, but my guess is that you were on the right track when you were hitting it on the anvil and the shaping didn't look right.

Strangely enough, if you are using the 'flair the wing' method that is what happens. You may not have messed it up at all, you may just have missed the all important step - hit it some more to shape it.

Bascially there are a lot of ways to do almost any metal work, but the most obvious way to do the 'puckers' in the wings of elbows and knees involves flairing the material near the center (we usually tried to use a straight or cross pien to localize the stretching, but you can use almost anything). The less obvious step is what to do next. Once you have formed a potato-chip shape with part of the center of the wing curling up and looking stupid, you can just curl each side of the wing to the appropriate shape. This is kind of like just curling up the top half of the wing and durling the bottom half of the wing. You do this from the outside with a flat hammer or mallet just like you would curl a vambrace.

If you have the right amount of flair in the center of the cop

, with a rough crease straight down the middle, the wing will just flow into the right shape.

This is probably unclear.

It is one of those things that feels real funny until you do it.

This basic method will work just fine for most elbows and knees (and it can be applied to some really odd pieces once you learn to feel how it will affect the shape). Once you move to really full wings (like the ones you want to do

), you will probably find that you get a lot of thining. There are other techniques that can be used to help this. The easiest is to use heat - it changes the whole way the metal moves.

You can make almost anything (as long as you don't mind a little thining) by 'beating the metal on an anvil'. We got bored one day when we should have been working on commissions and took a rectangular piece of metal and flaired it until we had an hourglass gauntlet. It was relly small (it fits my 3 year old) and too thin at the edge to be a practical method, but it showed how much metal can be moved. It was done completely with cold work - and never annealed during the process

Once you have the basic shape then you can start worrying about the flute and roll along the edge of the wing......

Wade

Stoffel · Post by **Stoffel** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 9:16 am

I think my problem may be that I'm using scrap 18g. I probably dont have enough metal to move around. When I get back from gulfwars(I've got a suit to finish before war, so no free time) I'll try it with 16 or 14g. This is really my first attempt to use the anvil to do real shaping, but I was attempting to do what you(wcallen) where explaining, so I guess I'm somewhat on the right track. As for rolling the edge on the fan, I've pretty much figured out how to role any edge with the hand full of dulled chisels I have, and a lead block.

wcallen · Post by **wcallen** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 9:24 am

A roll isn't too bad....

This one will force you to make the original piece of metal bigger (more flairing), you get to go around tight curves, and it needs to be done 'the other way' from most rolls - in this later world they rolled in, not out.

Then you get to clean it all up... tight space, lots of hammer and tool marks. Lots of fun.

The really annoying thing is when you mess up the final stage of the recessed borders after doing all the other work on the piece....

It really will be fun - don't let me discourage you. It will just be about 4 times as much trouble as a 'normal' 14th. c. elbow.

oh - you should be able to do all of this in 18g - you will just need to be very careful, and heat would help. thicker metal just lets you be sloppier and grind more (often a good thing).
Wade

[This message has been edited by wcallen (edited 02-28-2002).]