The Armour Archive

Just finished this custom one for a nice lady here in Caid, I think she will like it. Over 60 welds just in the dome alone. Time for a shower and a cold soda, tomorrow starts another day and another order.


More pictures at http://thearmourstore.com/helmets.htm

Brand
Count, Knight

clean lines, intricate design, very nice. The hinges look a bit bulky to me, and I think you might have done more work than you had to with the 60 welds, but that's not hugely important. I imagine it allows good airflow

Wow! Wow! Wow!!! That's very impressive! The dome is very well done, and the lines are so clean on it all! I don't mind the large hinges, but I can see where some might think they're a bit excessive. Great work, Sir Brand!

-Gregory-

superior! indeed, 60 welds do seem a bit much - but hey - it's most definately solid! nice satin finish, and i love the nasal. and in the words of a great science teacher: beauteous...

SAWEET!!!

The dome has 60 welds because it is made of 20 separate pieces, 4 comprising the bands, the 4 top crosses, 4 large "Y's" and 8 small "Y's". It adds up fast.

The dome and back are made of 12 gauge, as are the hinges. I use heavy duty industrial hinges on all of my locking jaw styles because they are almost impossible to deform in rattan combat. Lighter weight hinges can bend under repeated impacts which can cause their movement to lock up.

The dome has 60 welds because it is made of 20 separate pieces, 4 comprising the bands, the 4 top crosses, 4 large "Y's" and 8 small "Y's". It adds up fast.

I didn't mention the "excessive welds" because I knew all too well that this piece was made from many different pieces. For anyone interested, here's a picture of the original helmet it got it's inspiration from.

The original obviously had rivets everywhere. This is what is generally known as the "Valsgarde six helmet" Kudos to Halv's great site for the information, but it's down at the moment, so I'll attach the image!

You'll notice the big difference in the nasal area. I believe Sir Brand got the inspiration for the nasal/cheek pieces from both the Vendel 14 helmet, as well as the Coppergate helmet, judging by the elongated state of the nasal piece. The cheek pieces and the protruding brow are very Vendel-like, though!

-Gregory-

My only question is how do you stop the padding from showing through?

*ducking and running away FAST!*

I think it looks great, I like it.

Jolly well done.

It would look nice with red felt or something before the padding.

Thanks for the pics.

Halberds

count Brand,
im currently debating pickin up one of raymonds ridge sections for mine...

I just dont think the color will match the brass on it as is.. also does the occularum goggles effect vision much? I probably should go back and add them but Im overtly leary of adding more on the face.

Im also debating on adding rivets along the top and side band to get the full riveted look... I got them sorta marked out in black sharpie.

photos.yahoo.com/sjernigen in the armor folder.

any input would be keen since you and Ben seem to be the only other people I know who have really gotten into valgarde helm types.
thanks

Pretty slick, Brand!

Very Nice indeed

I think that you are right on spot with the dome and the crossing bands.

What is actually to be known about the original Valsgarde 6? were the bands riveted in the crossing areas, and what about the Y-sections?


Great work Sir Brand

I saw the top at brigade practice, even then it was impressive. The weight was even, and the work was very clean. The finished product is truly amazing. Well met Sir Brand!!

The customer wanted a Valsgarde 6 style top with Vendel styled cheeks and Coppergate nasal. It took about 3 days to get an idea of how to do it all while keeping it highly SCA functional.

For Samuel: Oculars often block a small bit of vision and take some getting used to. Rivets are more "period" but makes the helm more difficult to maintain and does not offer as clean of lines.

For George: I'll try to attach a couple of pictures of the actual Valsgarde 6. It is a very tall helm in the dome, while period is not too practical for SCA combat with 2" of padding atop your head.

Brand
Count, Knight
Caid

OswynHaddock wrote:My only question is how do you stop the padding from showing through?

*ducking and running away FAST!*

I have one simular made by Sir Richard.

I padded by cutting strips of black padding just as wide as the metal I attached it to. From the outside, the padding cannot be seen unless you look closely.

G

I have seen Giles helm and he is right, you cant see the padding at all unless you know its there.

Count Brand, I sent you an email about an idea I had a while back, just wondering if you got it and what you thought about it.
Cheers,
Leo

wow that is pretty.
Anyone got pics of the Valsgarde helm that has solid sides that looks like they are narrow bands? The link I had is down....

Thorfinn

Very sweet, Sir Brand. What is your impression of the weight to strength as opposed to solid spangen panels? I am working on a similar situation and have had concerns raised as to the weight. Beautiful interpretation, probably the best I have seen.
Cheers, Erick Davidson

OswynHaddock wrote:My only question is how do you stop the padding from showing through?

*ducking and running away FAST!*

This is going to be my lady Ciar's helmet, and I believe she is going to fill the skull with a felt or leather liner.

Samuel - My lady dislikes occulars, and preferred the look of the cheek pieces and long Coppergate nasal. I fight in one of Count Brand's older helms, and the occular & nasal only very slightly limit my peripheral vision. If you get your face situated properly relative to them (ordinarily, this means having the helm made to fit - in my case, it meant padding and strapping the helm just so, since it was made for someone else), no problem!

The Valgarde 6 helm has many very large rivets; this is somewhat different from the other Valsgarde helms (and the Vendels, the Sutton Hoo, and the Coppergate) that tend to have lots of smaller, more discrete rivets. The welded construction is more consistent with the 'feel' of these helms, not to mention sturdy!

Brand:

That is a majorly sweet piece of helm porn.

It is a sweet hat!

It is unfortunate that the rivits were left out though.

I think they add a decorative touch all their own, at least they did on the one I made and sold to Duke Henrik.

As for hiding the padding, do what it is theorized they did, wear a fabric/leather cap of bright color between the helm and the liner.

I bought a gorgeous piece of crimson suede just for that and then lost in the helm (so I sold it)

Also you might consider tucking the rear part of the nose to nape band under the browband next time, it just looks cleaner to me that away.

Is this Brandr of Orkney fame? If so I wore one of your barrel helms for the first year of my fighting career;)


Halv

Gregory J. Liebau wrote:
The original obviously had rivets everywhere. This is what is generally known as the "Valsgarde six helmet" Kudos to Halv's great site for the information, but it's down at the moment, so I'll attach the image!

--Against my better judgement (because I really need to clean it up and update it) I have put it back up

http://www.missouri.edu/~rls555/SCA/res ... /helms.htm


Please note though that in the next few weeks it will be modified and moved to its new home of the VikingsNA server

Halv

Lorccan wrote:

OswynHaddock wrote:My only question is how do you stop the padding from showing through?

*ducking and running away FAST!*

This is going to be my lady Ciar's helmet, and I believe she is going to fill the skull with a felt or leather liner.

Samuel - My lady dislikes occulars, and preferred the look of the cheek pieces and long Coppergate nasal. I fight in one of Count Brand's older helms, and the occular & nasal only very slightly limit my peripheral vision. If you get your face situated properly relative to them (ordinarily, this means having the helm made to fit - in my case, it meant padding and strapping the helm just so, since it was made for someone else), no problem!

The Valgarde 6 helm has many very large rivets; this is somewhat different from the other Valsgarde helms (and the Vendels, the Sutton Hoo, and the Coppergate) that tend to have lots of smaller, more discrete rivets. The welded construction is more consistent with the 'feel' of these helms, not to mention sturdy!

Im not a fan of them either. I didnt add them to my valsgardish helm because Im a vision snob.

Photos.yahoo.com/sjernigen

in the armor folder are a few pics of mine. I did the work in bens shop ( dragonforge armory) before moving back to CO. then did the brass since ive been out here. I REALLY wanted to do the occuarum but had put a cardboard cutout up on it and taped it to and just didnt like the feel. but im sorta debating on going back in and attaching a brass overlay on top of the grill and hiding it in the corners under the forhead band. but at this point Im thinking its too late. but the rivets I put along the "x" peices really made it feel more "real" for me. its all welded throughout and riveted after. the rivets are decore only basically.

IM still pondering puttin rivets along the band, at least on the top side of it and above the two cheek peices.


thats a link to the side shot if it works [img]http://us.f3.yahoofs.com/users/41dffc9ez28b6cb42/127b/__tn_/7082.jpg?phf2FVCBf6E7Rcda[/img]

these helms are still fairly new in the sca so tryin to balance the safety requirements and keep it looking period are still kinda up in the air.

Ben did one much more accurately than mine and didnt rivet the strap sections either. but I kinda like the rivets for decor but at the same time I dont want the thing turning into a japaneze helm of a billion rivets...

Yup Halv, same Brand.

I chose to have the back of the dorsal band on the outside as I had to place it on the outside in the front to support the bronze nasal as well as allow the dome itself to be more compact. The sizing tolerances on this helm are so strict to achieve the "real" helm look I could not risk encroaching on the inside of the dome any further.

As to the rivets, unfortunately the original valsgarde 6 has 150+ rivets in the dome, which would probably translate over to having a "studded" look to the dome. For me this would be too "busy" of a look as I would want to add anything that might detract from people seeing the lines of the dome style itself.

A lot of engineering goes into making a helm that looks cool work for the SCA. Compensating for proper padding, sizing, grill work and overall proportions takes a lot of time, about 3 days of just patternwork and rework on this one.

SirBrand wrote:Yup Halv, same Brand.

Padrig McMurdock (or used to be) still hang out with you all?
He taught me to fight when he did a short stint in Atlantia

A lot of engineering goes into making a helm that looks cool work for the SCA. Compensating for proper padding, sizing, grill work and overall proportions takes a lot of time, about 3 days of just patternwork and rework on this one.

--agreed.
We over engineered the one we made which is why I lost interest in the middle of the project;)

I still say the rivets are part of the look though.

IMO, during the early period, the art was in decorating the armour which of course melded into the art actually being the armour in the later periods.


Halv

Halvgrim wrote:

SirBrand wrote:Yup Halv, same Brand.

Padrig McMurdock (or used to be) still hang out with you all?
He taught me to fight when he did a short stint in Atlantia

A lot of engineering goes into making a helm that looks cool work for the SCA. Compensating for proper padding, sizing, grill work and overall proportions takes a lot of time, about 3 days of just patternwork and rework on this one.

--agreed.
We over engineered the one we made which is why I lost interest in the middle of the project;)

I still say the rivets are part of the look though.

IMO, during the early period, the art was in decorating the armour which of course melded into the art actually being the armour in the later periods.


Halv

thats the feel I got from looking over the 12 or so valgard/vendel era helms. the skill was less in the construction but more in the decor. aka spacing on plates etc didnt look perfect but the time invested in the bronze/brass/latten was much more than the basic helm construction.

since your the man on this period halvgrim, whats suitable for body armor? mail shirts? lammelar? bear hides:)

Ive been trying to put together the kit to match the helm and havent found a lot lot in the way of variety of body armor. seems thus far mail shirts where the most one could expect. I had seen stave armor in use by a few others but Mord says that would have been limb protection and not torso.

Also Brand/Halvgrim/anyone on the type 5 would you think 12 guage stainless strips 3/8 wide would be sufficent to withstand blows? Im debating making a type 5 ISH helm next and covering the whole thing in peirced and etched brass ( aka anyplace where there is smooth metal, except for the woven sections)those sections look a bit smaller than 3/8ths but im leary of anything thinner.

Samuel wrote:

since your the man on this period halvgrim, whats suitable for body armor? mail shirts? lammelar? bear hides:)

--mail, if anything

Ive been trying to put together the kit to match the helm and havent found a lot lot in the way of variety of body armor. seems thus far mail shirts where the most one could expect. I had seen stave armor in use by a few others but Mord says that would have been limb protection and not torso.

--that jives with my research

Also Brand/Halvgrim/anyone on the type 5 would you think 12 guage stainless strips 3/8 wide would be sufficent to withstand blows? Im debating making a type 5 ISH helm next and covering the whole thing in peirced and etched brass ( aka anyplace where there is smooth metal, except for the woven sections)those sections look a bit smaller than 3/8ths but im leary of anything thinner.

--The helm we made had a 12 ga frame and 14 filler.
I thought it was over kill but then again the Calontir level of force isnt as high as some of the other kingdoms.


Halv
[/quote]

Halvgrim wrote:
I still say the rivets are part of the look though.

IMO, during the early period, the art was in decorating the armour which of course melded into the art actually being the armour in the later periods.


Halv

Agreed, but I wouldn't want to have to get an all-riveted version inspected by a marshal I didn't know! The welded construction is easier to deal with in that context, especially if you used the small rivets that seem to have been more common in this period. This way, the rivets could even be added to the fully functional helm.

BTW, thanks for keeping your site up. Having it as a reference is sometimes really helpful (like when I don't just happen to be carrying around a copy of Valsgarde 8 or The Anglian Helmet from Coppergate in my pocket!).

Must one remove the padding or liner so the Martial can see the inside?

Wow that's nice work!

Makes me want to try to make one just so I can drool over it. But I'd never get through the patterning stage....or if I did...the result would make me wish I hadn't . That and the fact that I don't have space for "drool" armour.....hmm...when I get rich (translate: "never") I'll have to buy a big mansion and fill it with steller examples of craftsmanship like this one. I wish!

But again, awesome work! My hat is off to you. Personally I like the clean lines you get without the rivets. Any chance we can see a picture of the inside with all the welds?

The Leviathan

*BUMP*

I still want to see a pic of the inside if at all possible. Thanks.

The Leviathan

Here is a shot of my Valsgarde 6 done by Master Richard Knotwolf.

Here is a drawing of the original:

[img]http://www.missouri.edu/~rls555/SCA/research/helms/Val6sugrecon.jpg[/img]

Giles

Beautiful! God, makes me want to go Viking instead of 15th century!

Again another piece that is so well made that has me saying : i got to make one of these!

superbe!!

thanks for sharing

Durame