The Armour Archive

Ok well my current comission is a round faced klapvisored bascinet for use in AEMMA combat.

Anyway the bascinet itself just needs a bunch more work still and bascinet's just aren't all that exciting.

But the visor is mostly done. It's still gotta get the vertical slots cut for seeing and get sanded and polished and have the breaths drilled. But I'm really happy with the results sorta. Something just doesn't seem to look quite right.

Also I accidentally put a flute in it instead of a crease.

So bearing in mind the fact that it's not quite finished whadya think?

BTW I did heat it once to anneal it but it really coulda been done without that anneal. It's just fine to play with fire. The anneal was just for the oculars really.

Also the flute down the centre looks like it's not set in the centre but it really is. It's an optical illusion caused by a crappy photographer.

Anyway on with the pics.

http://www.crosswinds.net/~mad666matt/klapvisor.html

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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory

Nice! I like the shape of the rounded front. I'll be interested to see the final product.

Regards,
Cerdic

cool..somme info on the tecnique please!


Suspect

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in hoc signo vince

Looks really nice Matt! The only comment I can offer is this:

Most of these visors I have seen have the bottom point turned out away from the wearer slightly. I don't know why, maybe it's so the sharp point can't be driven into your chest or neck, maybe it's so it's easier to grab and lift up, maybe it's just a style thing. And of course, I have no idea how common this really was, that's just what the majority of the ones I've seen looked like.

Again, looks really nice so far!

-Matt Anderson

Yeah I know. I did make an attempt at the curly cue at the bottom but it didn't want to behave. I'm gonna leave the call on that one up to the customer.

Suspect: Here's what I did.

Step one. Cut and deburr sinric's pattern.

step two. Dish the face area fairly deep not dishing the eye area.

step three. Modify a masonry hammer. I cut about 1" off the pointy end and then rounded that off.

Step four. dish using the pointy end of the masonry hammer into a slot looking thing in the side of the dishing stump. I annealed half way but it wasn't really necessary.

at this point the oculars look like lumpy blobs.

step five. Sharpen and shape the oculars on the end of a T stake made from 1" square stock on a flat end that's had the edges basically just unsharpened. Using the flat end of the masonry hammer which has now had the edges rounded and the face polished.

Step six. Planish face area.

Step seven crease the face area. The flute I accidentally did isn't really correct.

Step eight. Go back and planish the oculars with a light planishing hammer. And sharpen the corners a little more.

That was about it. It should be noted that I spent quite a bit of time on this. So don't think that it's going to happen quickly.

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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory

excellent job Matt

Looks great Matt.

You can use a light hammer on the inside, and tap the flute out into a crease. Just do it right on an anvil and don't hit too hard.

I'd also suggest turning that point out. I'd hate to get it driven into my throat

I would also suggest you try working the occularia entirely from the outside. It will make a big difference in the thickness of the final product. Stretching them out from the inside can easily thin them.

Keep up the good work!


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Michael Shedden

http://www.barbute.com/armour

Ya know I didn't even think of fixing the crease that way. Thanks. The customer says he likes the flute now though.

Any suggestions on how to get the curly cue to behave properly? I did attempt it but I couldn't get that compound curve to let me curve it out without ending up with a kink.

It's going to be interesting to see how thick the point of the occularia are when the slots get cut.

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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory

That certainly is nice. I fight in a similar face plate, and I'd agree that some curve out at the bottom is necessary. It picks away at your avantail, your chest, or your throat if it's not pointed away from you. I'd also recommend that you make the point wider than the avantail's rings so it doesn't get caught.

You might try puting the tip perpendicular to a rounded stake, and maybe trying a cross pein or straight pein hammer on it, with the edge of the hammer parallel to your central flute.
Gaston

Nice work there Matt.

Looks sweet.
Sasuke

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www.oaksarmoury.com

That's a good looking visor so far Matt, and fairly close to the real thing. The only negative thing is that you are unlikely to be able to document that shape of occularia on that type of visor in period.

I agree that the flute needs to go, and if you are adament that it's in the centre, then the occularia are not.
So, which would you rather move, the flut/ridge or the occularia? Once the ridge lines up with the centre of the occularia then it will all look straight. The fact that the ridge will be a couple of mm out of centre should not be detectable.

Turning the bottom point out is indeed period, but I can't tell you how to do it. I had the same problem on a test visor I made once and never figured out how to do that complex double curve.

Erik

By golly I think you got it!
You will be doing faces before me no?
Hal.

Medieval Jedi helm...

"But with the occulars not cut out I can't see what I'm doing!"

Sasha
...very tired and silly


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"Green Eggs and Hamlet"
Would you kill him in his bed? Thrust a dagger through his head?
I would
not, could not, kill the King. I could not do that evil thing. I
would not
wed this girl, you see. Now get her to a nunnery.

When doing the curl ... see to that u heat it properly, and to be sure that the original shape of the visor is not "stretched" or alterd while doing thís you should cool the part of the visor you'r not curling with water before u start hammering on it

Very Nice Work Matt! Wonderful!
-Cad

o yeah ... forgot one thing.. very nice work!

First thanks for all the compliments and suggestions.

I'm gonna fuss with the thing untill the curly cue works. BTW the point at the bottom of this one is VERY blunt.

About a 1" diameter radius IIRC.

Ulf I worked the whole thing cold. The fact that I annealed it (sorta) meant that it was the first time that I'd ever heated a piece of armour. So I'm really new to playing with hot metal. I might try it hot though.

Anyway I'm going to try to form the curve overtop of a 2-5/8" ball stake I've got. With the ball stake fitting into the curve that's there now. That might work.

The flute really does line up with the oculars. Like I said crappy photography. Actually it's an optical illusion caused by flash photography combined with poor lighting in general. I'd go take pics outside but it's freezing outside.

Sasha HEHEHE Take a look at the kettle hat pics I'm gonna post a little later today.

Erik: Nope not documentable on this type of visor. I know there should be a flat spot on the top of the raised oculars with a big open eyeslot cut into them.

AEMMA requires these though and they preferr them to be pointed. So if I'd done it properly with the pointed ones on top of the flat spot it'd end up looking really goofy. I'm almost positive I've seen a houndskull visor with these oculars though which keeps them sorta within reason on the one I've made but of course definitly not documentable and most likely having never been done historically. Looks really nifty though.

Halberds: I was accidentally inspired to make a face helm last night when I was taking some pics of a kettle hat I finished on the weekend. Take a look at the pics I'm gonna post later today and you'll see why.

Once again thanks for all the compliments and suggestions. I'm really pround of this thing. I kind of feel like I'm moved up to another skill level after being able to successfully just go ahead and make these things on the first attempt. I don't really feel like a bumbling beginner anymore. More of a bumbling guy who's been at it a while.


Hey wow. I just noticed that Chuck's compliment was from Chuck. That one really means a lot to me.
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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory

[This message has been edited by Mad Matt (edited 03-19-2002).]

I want to see the kettle! by the way, noooiiiice!



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Torr O'Neal
The Irish, Norwegian Merc

ok.. try som hotwork you'r gonna love it
looking forward to the kettl pics!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mad Matt:
<B>First thanks for all the compliments and suggestions.

I'm gonna fuss with the thing untill the curly cue works. BTW the point at the bottom of this one is VERY blunt.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

snip

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Hey wow. I just noticed that Chuck's compliment was from Chuck. That one really means a lot to me.[/B]</font>

Your welcome. I don't think you need to really worry about teh curly cue on the bottom point. I feel that we tend to forget that there was a wide array of styles and details in armour. Just about anything goes. If your trying for an 'exact' reproduction, go ahead and fuss over all the details. But, If we are trying to make something that could have existed in period, then we can keep it within the realm of the possible. Now, if your curling the point as a safety issue.....

Just my opinion. Again, nice work. I espically like the occularium. Very nice boxing. What did you use on the 45deg angles? I have a 45deg bent crosspean hammer. Makes it very easy to hammer there.

I also want to point out to people the overall profile of the visor. The buldge of the bottom isn't huge like some I've seen, and the crease forms a pleasing curve like a gothic arc.

Later Matt,
-Cad

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-Chuck
aka Cadwallon y' Rhudd

Ok all I used on the oculars was the modified masonry hammer, a $1.29 auto body planishing hammer and a t stake I made by welding 2 pieces of 1" square stock together and just cleaning up the end but still leaving it sharp.

I was actually amazed at how well the bulge functions. I also have a feeling that the size of the bulge needs to be directly related to the size of your nose. The visor fits very well to the shape of my face (the customer's face wasn't present but I get the idea.)

The crease in the centre isn't currently the proper stylized gothic arch shape but it was what I'd intended to begin with. I was so excited about getting to use the fluting stake I'd made at Krag's armour in that I forgot it was going to make a flute instead of a crease. I will be taking Michael's advice on technique and remedying the problem.

On the Curly cue I'm planning more of just a bit of a flare. The bottom of this one is duller then most I've seen so I'm going to try to keep with the style of the curly cue and take into account the fact that it's duller as well as the fact that flaring out will be a little safer. Basically it'll probably just be a bit of a gentle curve outward.

Anyway I'll hopefully have pics of the finished product for Monday.

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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory