My go at a more authentic helm liner

David deKunstenaar · Post by **David deKunstenaar** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 11:28 am

Alot of modern felt is synthetic materials. You might want to check. Also, felt is pressed and matted fibers, not spun and woven. as a result, it will tear easily when wetted. Early period felt was made from pressed hair, (game and domestic). The story goes, that it was discovered by a furrier walking to market. His feet were sore from the stones so he placed some rabbit furs in his shoes. when he got to the market her went to remove the furs but the hairs had matted down inside of his shoes. He discovered that this was very comfortable and wala, felt was invented.
I would not use felt as a helm liner, without stitching it between two layers of linen. I will just fall apart.

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Arti

Bertus Brokamp · Post by **Bertus Brokamp** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 3:02 pm

Thanks for the advice! My felt's made purily of wool, so that's ok.
As for the 'felt cap' part; I will also be wearing a arming cap, so maybe that solves the problem of it not fitting to my head?
Anyway; concluding to what you all said, I should sew the felt between two layers of linen. Then I should punch holes into the base of my bascinet and along the cheek parts and sew the felt/linen liner into the helm.
Now I come to think of it; should I also include a leather chin-strap? If so, how should I attach it? I was planning on attaching it to the leather strap from the liner, which is of course not in the picture any more... So... How should I do it? Rivets?

[This message has been edited by Herman (edited 03-21-2002).]

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 5:12 am

Use the rivets, Herman.*

Use the forks, Luke.

*With washers, if needed.

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"The Minstrel Boy to the war is gone..."

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 6:53 am

If you are using this helm for SCA fighting, a chin strap is required. I just punched a hole in the appropriate places in the liner to allow the chin-strap to pass through the liner. The chin strap should attach to the helm itself, not the liner. If you attach the chin strap to the liner the helm will still come off your head, turning the liner inside-out. You'll look pretty silly if this happens.

Steve

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Forth Armoury
The Riveted Maille Website!

Bertus Brokamp · Post by **Bertus Brokamp** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 7:21 am

LOL, I hadn't thought of that! 8-)

Btw, i was just checking out the wolf argent liv. hist. forum and found a topic there discussing the extending of the helm's liner in sofar that it would also act as padding for the camail. Any of you have axperience with this?

Herman

Bertus Brokamp · Post by **Bertus Brokamp** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 9:25 am

I looked up those posts about camail padding:

chef de chambre:
...
That said, something to keep in mind is that some current research argues that a padded aventail would have been worn under the mail one. Evidence for this theory is the rigid shape of the aventail on many barasses, and more importantly on three dimensional statuary, and one key clue coming from the tomb of Philip the Bold, who is not wearing his bascinet, but it is set to the side, allowing the viewer to look 'into' the aventail, where a padded lining can clearly be seen.

Otto von Teich:
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Padded liner makes sense to me. Most armour from the period doesnt really have much collarbone defence,a padded aventail would help a great deal.Thanks, Otto

hauptmann:
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What we've done on occasion is make the liner extend out of the bottom of the helmet and flare wide all the way to the bottom of the aventail. This works well and is more elegant than having a separate padded piece for the aventail liner AND the helmet liner.
There are statues/carvings/effigies that show points along the bottom edge of the aventail, perhaps holding the mail in place over the padded liner, perhaps pointing the whole arrangement to the lentner or jupon to keep it from shifting or lifting up during movement. Either of these possibilities seems plausible and perhaps both were used.

In any case, it seems unlikely that aventails had no lining under them, as they damage the torso garments underneath from abrasion and offer little protection on their own; having much more protective value with even a small amount of padding underneath.

Seigneur de Leon:
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I'm thinking strongly about redoing the padding the way Jeff H. said on the camail. Not only would it protect, it would hold the shape better, and most importantly, it would quit pulling my beard.

Cerdic · Post by **Cerdic** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 9:55 am

Only one other thing to consider, with the thick felt as padding for SCA combat (if that's what it's being used for). Make sure the felt is nice and compressable. If it's just a thick piece of tightly woven felt, 1cm thick, that may not provide much cushioning for your noggin' when you get hit.

Last thing you want is a concussion from a poorly padded (but great looking) helm.

Good luck.

Cerdic

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 2:22 pm

Ok, lets say that I do sew my liner to the base of my helm. OK, that's cool. Now I want to wash my liner. Do I have to cut the threading materal and then sew it back on after done washing, or is there some way to attach it to the helm without having to cut and re-sew? Thanks all!

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Torr O'Neal
The Irish, Norwegian Merc

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 3:32 pm

[This message has been edited by Jean Paul de Sens (edited 03-22-2002).]

David deKunstenaar · Post by **David deKunstenaar** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 3:54 pm

Yes you have to cut the tread and re-sew it. the is one of thwo reasons that a lot of fighters wear an arming cap. (the other reason is that an arming cap keeps your ears form bending down).

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 7:32 pm

I would expect to have to cut it off, and sew back in.

Steve

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Forth Armoury
The Riveted Maille Website!