Hello,
I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but are there any detailed resources on the armour of the Templars during the Crusades?
I think that they wore a coif, hauberk, chausses, and a great helm, but I was curious if there were actual plate greaves, guantlets and arm( I don't know the proper term) armour.
This is my first attempt at armour, and am trying to get it as accurate as I possibly can. It's mainly for a Summer project, because I only work nights. I felt that making chainmail wouldn't be too difficult, compared to constructing plate.
I know next to nothing about making armour, and would apreciate any good sources. I'm also looking for the SCA in my area (British Columbia, Canada) as they seem to have the most information of any group, and I could probably learn a great deal from them.
I imagine newbies like myself come along quite often. Is there a way to search through the message board's past messages?
Thanks,
-Peter
Templars and other questions from a new guy
-
Egfroth
- Archive Member
- Posts: 4577
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Paetebre:
<B>Hello,
I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but are there any detailed resources on the armour of the Templars during the Crusades?
I think that they wore a coif, hauberk, chausses, and a great helm, but I was curious if there were actual plate greaves, guantlets and arm( I don't know the proper term) armour.
This is my first attempt at armour, and am trying to get it as accurate as I possibly can. It's mainly for a Summer project, because I only work nights. I felt that making chainmail wouldn't be too difficult, compared to constructing plate.
I know next to nothing about making armour, and would apreciate any good sources. I'm also looking for the SCA in my area (British Columbia, Canada) as they seem to have the most information of any group, and I could probably learn a great deal from them.
I imagine newbies like myself come along quite often. Is there a way to search through the message board's past messages?
Thanks,
-Peter</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Knights Templar were founded early in the 12th century (about 1109, I think) as the "Poor Knights of Christ", and were forcibly disbanded in the first years of the 14th century (about 1305, I think). During their 200-odd years, their armour developed in accordance with that of Western Europe.
They started with mail shirts (hauberks), usually with elbow-length sleeves, coifs (mail-hoods) and conical helms with nasals. Some of them may have had mail chausses on their lower legs, though they would probably only have covered the front of the leg, being laced up the back. Their shields would have been "kite" shaped. The armour was worn over the clothes, with nothing over it.
As time went on, the sleeves of the mailshirts got longer, eventually gaining mail mittens built into them. Armour was worn over an "aketon" or "pourpoint" - a padded garment designed to break the force of blows. The helmet gained a face-plate, and many became flat-topped, gradually developing into a "barrel-helm" The shield lost its tound top, and became shorter, first being almost triangular, then developing into the shape known as "heater" (from its similarity to the sole plate of a flat-iron). Chausses covered the whole lower leg. A surcoat began being worn over the armour, white with a red cross on the right breast.
Still later (about 1250 or so) knee plates known as poleyns were introduced, as well as sometimes a "breastplate" of cuir bouilli worn under the surcoat and over the mailshirt. Some reinforcements were even built into the surcoat.
By the time the Templars were disbanded (forcibly, by King Philip the Fair of France, who wanted to get his hands on their treasures and trumped up charges against them of heresy and witchcraft), their warriors were dressed over all in mail, perhaps with "gutter-shaped" plate coverings on the lower legs, surcoats and many wore great helms.
To see details of the kind of outfit they began with, see the Bayeux Tapestry (about 50 years early, but the changes between times were relatively minor) at http://www.hastings1066.com/bayhi4a.shtml - to see what they wore in their heyday, see the Maciejowski Bible and the Manasses Codex, both dated to about 1250 AD http://www.keesn.nl/mac/mac_en.htm
The Templars were destroyed before plate armour became common, so you would be totally within your rights to stay in full mail. To find out more, I'd recommend "Arms and Armour of the Mediaeval Knight" by Edge and Paddock. It gives a good overview of the evolution of armour in the period under discussion.
There is more information available about their banners and symbology, and their Templar Rule, if you are interested in searching out more.
To get to earlier discussions, you'd have to ask someone who knows more about how this forum works. It's all still a mystery to me.
------------------
Egfroth
Major Bloodnok, Queen's Forty-Third Deserters (retd.) "Do you know what it's like to be in the thick of a bloody battle, with bullets flying and sabres clashing?"
Ned Seagoon: "No."
Bloodnok: "Pity; I was hoping you could tell me . . ."
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos
<B>Hello,
I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but are there any detailed resources on the armour of the Templars during the Crusades?
I think that they wore a coif, hauberk, chausses, and a great helm, but I was curious if there were actual plate greaves, guantlets and arm( I don't know the proper term) armour.
This is my first attempt at armour, and am trying to get it as accurate as I possibly can. It's mainly for a Summer project, because I only work nights. I felt that making chainmail wouldn't be too difficult, compared to constructing plate.
I know next to nothing about making armour, and would apreciate any good sources. I'm also looking for the SCA in my area (British Columbia, Canada) as they seem to have the most information of any group, and I could probably learn a great deal from them.
I imagine newbies like myself come along quite often. Is there a way to search through the message board's past messages?
Thanks,
-Peter</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Knights Templar were founded early in the 12th century (about 1109, I think) as the "Poor Knights of Christ", and were forcibly disbanded in the first years of the 14th century (about 1305, I think). During their 200-odd years, their armour developed in accordance with that of Western Europe.
They started with mail shirts (hauberks), usually with elbow-length sleeves, coifs (mail-hoods) and conical helms with nasals. Some of them may have had mail chausses on their lower legs, though they would probably only have covered the front of the leg, being laced up the back. Their shields would have been "kite" shaped. The armour was worn over the clothes, with nothing over it.
As time went on, the sleeves of the mailshirts got longer, eventually gaining mail mittens built into them. Armour was worn over an "aketon" or "pourpoint" - a padded garment designed to break the force of blows. The helmet gained a face-plate, and many became flat-topped, gradually developing into a "barrel-helm" The shield lost its tound top, and became shorter, first being almost triangular, then developing into the shape known as "heater" (from its similarity to the sole plate of a flat-iron). Chausses covered the whole lower leg. A surcoat began being worn over the armour, white with a red cross on the right breast.
Still later (about 1250 or so) knee plates known as poleyns were introduced, as well as sometimes a "breastplate" of cuir bouilli worn under the surcoat and over the mailshirt. Some reinforcements were even built into the surcoat.
By the time the Templars were disbanded (forcibly, by King Philip the Fair of France, who wanted to get his hands on their treasures and trumped up charges against them of heresy and witchcraft), their warriors were dressed over all in mail, perhaps with "gutter-shaped" plate coverings on the lower legs, surcoats and many wore great helms.
To see details of the kind of outfit they began with, see the Bayeux Tapestry (about 50 years early, but the changes between times were relatively minor) at http://www.hastings1066.com/bayhi4a.shtml - to see what they wore in their heyday, see the Maciejowski Bible and the Manasses Codex, both dated to about 1250 AD http://www.keesn.nl/mac/mac_en.htm
The Templars were destroyed before plate armour became common, so you would be totally within your rights to stay in full mail. To find out more, I'd recommend "Arms and Armour of the Mediaeval Knight" by Edge and Paddock. It gives a good overview of the evolution of armour in the period under discussion.
There is more information available about their banners and symbology, and their Templar Rule, if you are interested in searching out more.
To get to earlier discussions, you'd have to ask someone who knows more about how this forum works. It's all still a mystery to me.
------------------
Egfroth
Major Bloodnok, Queen's Forty-Third Deserters (retd.) "Do you know what it's like to be in the thick of a bloody battle, with bullets flying and sabres clashing?"
Ned Seagoon: "No."
Bloodnok: "Pity; I was hoping you could tell me . . ."
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos
-
Egfroth
- Archive Member
- Posts: 4577
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
- Contact:
Just a little more info. There's a discussion going on at the moment on the Research and Accuracy page which you may find of use. it's at http://www.armourarchive.org/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001024.html and deals with armour from the end of the 13th century, near the end of the Templar period.
------------------
Egfroth
Major Bloodnok, Queen's Forty-Third Deserters (retd.) "Do you know what it's like to be in the thick of a bloody battle, with bullets flying and sabres clashing?"
Ned Seagoon: "No."
Bloodnok: "Pity; I was hoping you could tell me . . ."
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos
------------------
Egfroth
Major Bloodnok, Queen's Forty-Third Deserters (retd.) "Do you know what it's like to be in the thick of a bloody battle, with bullets flying and sabres clashing?"
Ned Seagoon: "No."
Bloodnok: "Pity; I was hoping you could tell me . . ."
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos
-
Egfroth
- Archive Member
- Posts: 4577
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
- Contact:
Found something else on the Templars (though it quickly went off the original subject). It's at http://netsword.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000107.html
------------------
Egfroth
Major Bloodnok, Queen's Forty-Third Deserters (retd.) "Do you know what it's like to be in the thick of a bloody battle, with bullets flying and sabres clashing?"
Ned Seagoon: "No."
Bloodnok: "Pity; I was hoping you could tell me . . ."
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos
------------------
Egfroth
Major Bloodnok, Queen's Forty-Third Deserters (retd.) "Do you know what it's like to be in the thick of a bloody battle, with bullets flying and sabres clashing?"
Ned Seagoon: "No."
Bloodnok: "Pity; I was hoping you could tell me . . ."
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos
-
Steve S.
- Archive Member
- Posts: 13327
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Huntsville, AL
- Contact:
Hi Paetebre!
Egfroth already did an excellent job - basically it's not so much the fact that you are a Templar that will define your armour, as much as what time period you are doing.
I participate with a Templar living history group, called Novae Militiae. We are based out of Atlanta, where the bulk of the members are, but we also have folks on other parts of the country. We go to military timeline events where we portray a military encampment circa 1189-1192. We have very high authenticity requirements, and we strive to portray the documentably common. You can see a few pictures of us here:
http://www.forth-armoury.com/novae_militiae/novae_militiae.htm
If you are interested, let me know.
Steve
------------------
Forth Armoury
The Riveted Maille Website!
Egfroth already did an excellent job - basically it's not so much the fact that you are a Templar that will define your armour, as much as what time period you are doing.
I participate with a Templar living history group, called Novae Militiae. We are based out of Atlanta, where the bulk of the members are, but we also have folks on other parts of the country. We go to military timeline events where we portray a military encampment circa 1189-1192. We have very high authenticity requirements, and we strive to portray the documentably common. You can see a few pictures of us here:
http://www.forth-armoury.com/novae_militiae/novae_militiae.htm
If you are interested, let me know.
Steve
------------------
Forth Armoury
The Riveted Maille Website!
For S.C.A. here is a link to An Tir the Kingdom you live in. http://www.antir.sca.org/
You live in the Principality of the North.
You live in the Principality of the North.
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Aidan Cambel
- Archive Member
- Posts: 3572
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2001 2:01 am
- Location: Birmingham, AL , USA
http://www.templarhistory.com
I portray a templar. There are several yahoo groups dedicated to templars also. go to yahoo! and choose groups - then do a search for knights templar.
In service,
Aidan
I portray a templar. There are several yahoo groups dedicated to templars also. go to yahoo! and choose groups - then do a search for knights templar.
In service,
Aidan
Thank you all so much.
Egfroth, thank you for your book recomendation and the links.
Steve, your site is perfect. That's what I had imagined the templars wore. I'm totally interested.
Steinolf, thanks for the link. There is even a meeting this weekend.
Aidan, thank you, although I do feel rather silly that I never discovered that page.
-Peter
Egfroth, thank you for your book recomendation and the links.
Steve, your site is perfect. That's what I had imagined the templars wore. I'm totally interested.
Steinolf, thanks for the link. There is even a meeting this weekend.
Aidan, thank you, although I do feel rather silly that I never discovered that page.
-Peter
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Armourkris
- Archive Member
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- Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 2:01 am
- Location: vancouver, BC.