Asymetrical armor?
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Kyle Wiegers
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Asymetrical armor?
I'm a bit of the Mercenary fan. I was just wondering if anybody out there has any pictures of armors that are intentionally asymetrical.
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Vogeljager
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According to my unreliable memory, asymetrical armour was only built for "special events".
What comes to mind are the Roman Gladiator's segmented arm guard (Manicle?) and the mid to late period jousting armour.
I'm not sure about why the gladiator is typically shown asymetrically armoured, but the jousters were expecting to always be hit on the same side and from the same direction (a hit to the left-front from the left and front) It would only make sence to more heavily armour that side and/or design glancing surfaces on that side do deflect the lance.
But I can't think of any other examples. A suit made for actual combat would have to expect attacks from all areas and angles, and so the right and left should be similarly protected.
What comes to mind are the Roman Gladiator's segmented arm guard (Manicle?) and the mid to late period jousting armour.
I'm not sure about why the gladiator is typically shown asymetrically armoured, but the jousters were expecting to always be hit on the same side and from the same direction (a hit to the left-front from the left and front) It would only make sence to more heavily armour that side and/or design glancing surfaces on that side do deflect the lance.
But I can't think of any other examples. A suit made for actual combat would have to expect attacks from all areas and angles, and so the right and left should be similarly protected.
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SyrRhys
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A lot of late-period armor was at least partially asymetrical, especially if intended for specialized purposes. "Pieces of Exchange" were often added to a standard harness for different kinds of combat; for example, a large, ehavy plate could be bolted over the left side to protect against lances in tournament jousting.
This is typical of 15th-century and later armor. The earliest medieval example of which I'm aware is the addition of the "mannifer", essentially a heavy but not very articulated gauntlet for the left hand used in tournaments; this is first recorded in the 14th century.
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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"
This is typical of 15th-century and later armor. The earliest medieval example of which I'm aware is the addition of the "mannifer", essentially a heavy but not very articulated gauntlet for the left hand used in tournaments; this is first recorded in the 14th century.
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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"
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Pathfinder
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Here's a link to some diagrams of some 15th C. Italian armour,some that was made asymetrical.
http://www.stormthewalls.dhs.org/armour/ItalianArmour.htm
Shield use had declined and the left arm/hand needed less mobility than the right.Fight with the right,steer horse with the left.
The right pauldron also had to be smaller than the left to couch a lance.
http://www.stormthewalls.dhs.org/armour/ItalianArmour.htm
Shield use had declined and the left arm/hand needed less mobility than the right.Fight with the right,steer horse with the left.
The right pauldron also had to be smaller than the left to couch a lance.
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freiman the minstrel
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Ryan Ricks
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chef de chambre
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Hi RYan,
Struggling through that book now, it is essentially Boccias thesis on the development of Italian harness through the course of the 15th century ( the '400 bit). To sum up his thesis in a nutshell, Boccia believed that Italian armour evolved in some small fashion @ every five years over the course of the century, and that by tracing this development through art, one can very accurately date an extant Italian harness (or composite of same). The diagrams on the website are enlarged from the book, but they are set up in order of the evolution of the cuirasse and pauldrons - this is what those diagrams are about.
Boccia is the fellow who did the research to be able to pin down location of manufacture of a suit by looking at local artwork - to tell a Milanese, from a Brescian, From a Venitian harness.
That particular book is crammed to the brim with close up shots of Italian harness, including interior shots, and focusing on such dtails as stamped rivet heads, handmade hinges, and the plentiful file work found on real suits of armour for decoration, that most often don't show up on even the best armour reconstruction. Also photographs of pontille work inscriptions, which are often present on real suits but usually ignored on modern reconstructions - in large part because they are so faint they don't show up in the photographs of overall suits.
How many people know that there is "Ave Maria" and "Ave Domini" on each respective pauldron of the Avant harness? (located on the stoprib on the pauldron) This is in adition to "Avant", and another inscription I forget on the cuirasse.
If you are interested in Italian armour from the late 14th to early 16th century, the book is a must have - especially if you are an armourer and you seek to make accurate reproductions of Italian armour. The photographs are the next best thing to handleing a piece, although nothing can truely replace hands on experience.
The book does miss out on a couple of important pieces, but I believe that is due to the pieces being "lost" - hidden away in private collections. In example, Boccia has no photographs of an armet with the first type of visor evolved, the "visera sana", and instead provides a very clear line drawing of one. The helmet with this style visor is very rare - the only extant one I am aware of was in the Baron Clossone (sp) collection (dated by Laking to be an armet c 1450), which has "dissapeared" from the public view when the collection broke up. It has a nice photograph of the helmet visor up and visor down published in Laking, which I think is the last time it was published. Reading Boccia and then looking at Laking, this particular armet either has an associated visor from earlier armet (but it fits too well), or is one of the last of the type made, and is dated to around 1450 - this from the chin structure of the armet (which starts showing at the earliest in Italian specimens of the 1450's.
Anyhow, the book is well worth the $230 I paid for it. It is of course written in Italian, which makes it range from painful to impossible to read (I can read French, and can make out enought to be able to sit down with an Italian/English dictionary and read the damned thing slowley).
Full of great pictures, and even better information for those determined to crack that particular nut.
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Bob R.
Struggling through that book now, it is essentially Boccias thesis on the development of Italian harness through the course of the 15th century ( the '400 bit). To sum up his thesis in a nutshell, Boccia believed that Italian armour evolved in some small fashion @ every five years over the course of the century, and that by tracing this development through art, one can very accurately date an extant Italian harness (or composite of same). The diagrams on the website are enlarged from the book, but they are set up in order of the evolution of the cuirasse and pauldrons - this is what those diagrams are about.
Boccia is the fellow who did the research to be able to pin down location of manufacture of a suit by looking at local artwork - to tell a Milanese, from a Brescian, From a Venitian harness.
That particular book is crammed to the brim with close up shots of Italian harness, including interior shots, and focusing on such dtails as stamped rivet heads, handmade hinges, and the plentiful file work found on real suits of armour for decoration, that most often don't show up on even the best armour reconstruction. Also photographs of pontille work inscriptions, which are often present on real suits but usually ignored on modern reconstructions - in large part because they are so faint they don't show up in the photographs of overall suits.
How many people know that there is "Ave Maria" and "Ave Domini" on each respective pauldron of the Avant harness? (located on the stoprib on the pauldron) This is in adition to "Avant", and another inscription I forget on the cuirasse.
If you are interested in Italian armour from the late 14th to early 16th century, the book is a must have - especially if you are an armourer and you seek to make accurate reproductions of Italian armour. The photographs are the next best thing to handleing a piece, although nothing can truely replace hands on experience.
The book does miss out on a couple of important pieces, but I believe that is due to the pieces being "lost" - hidden away in private collections. In example, Boccia has no photographs of an armet with the first type of visor evolved, the "visera sana", and instead provides a very clear line drawing of one. The helmet with this style visor is very rare - the only extant one I am aware of was in the Baron Clossone (sp) collection (dated by Laking to be an armet c 1450), which has "dissapeared" from the public view when the collection broke up. It has a nice photograph of the helmet visor up and visor down published in Laking, which I think is the last time it was published. Reading Boccia and then looking at Laking, this particular armet either has an associated visor from earlier armet (but it fits too well), or is one of the last of the type made, and is dated to around 1450 - this from the chin structure of the armet (which starts showing at the earliest in Italian specimens of the 1450's.
Anyhow, the book is well worth the $230 I paid for it. It is of course written in Italian, which makes it range from painful to impossible to read (I can read French, and can make out enought to be able to sit down with an Italian/English dictionary and read the damned thing slowley).
Full of great pictures, and even better information for those determined to crack that particular nut.
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Bob R.
Pathfinder Wrote:Here's a link to some diagrams of some 15th C. Italian armour,some that was made asymetrical.
http://www.stormthewalls.dhs.org/armour/ItalianArmour.htm
That is the best website I've ever seen! Thanks for that one.
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Watt
http://www.stormthewalls.dhs.org/armour/ItalianArmour.htm
That is the best website I've ever seen! Thanks for that one.
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Watt
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Olaf Skalle Krossar
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Kurt,
As has already been mentioned, 15th c. Milanese armor was almost always built heavier on the left side, but if you look at Gothic pieces from the War of the Roses era and later, you'll find that the shoulder armor and occasionally the arm armor were also deliberately different.
Olaf
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Olaf Skalle Krossar
Chieftain
Armourworks
(formerly The Armory of Westlig Stjerne)
www.armourworks.com
thefolks@armourworks.com
As has already been mentioned, 15th c. Milanese armor was almost always built heavier on the left side, but if you look at Gothic pieces from the War of the Roses era and later, you'll find that the shoulder armor and occasionally the arm armor were also deliberately different.
Olaf
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Olaf Skalle Krossar
Chieftain
Armourworks
(formerly The Armory of Westlig Stjerne)
www.armourworks.com
thefolks@armourworks.com
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white mountain armoury
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