Strapping and padding an elbow(SCA)

Klangiron Skullthumpa · Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:42 pm

Ok, newbie question. I got around to making elbows for SCA combat for myself. They're munitions grade 5 piece articulated and I don't have and real idea on how to pad or strap them. I intend on going ahead on making full arms with them so I know I won't need to strap the outer lames but do I still need a center strap? Also how does one go about padding it? I figure for a one piece you just line it but on an articulate piece how do you go about it? Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

SyrRhys · Post by **SyrRhys** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:46 pm

Whatever anyone tells you, a strap across the inside of the elbow is *essential* to make the armor work right. As for padding, you *have* to wear a quilted foundation garment anyway; not wearing that is the reason half the SCAdians don't understand why their arm harnesses flop around, so that should be enough padding if the elbow has been made correctly. If, on the other hand, your couter is round and flat and touches the point of your elbow like a lot of SCA armor does, then you might consider wearing an elbow pad under your foundation garment.

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 5:28 pm

Sir Rhys is absolutely 100% correct. Wearing the armour thusly causes no discomfort, and it is the historical solution.

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Bob R.

SyrRhys · Post by **SyrRhys** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 7:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by chef de chambre:
Sir Rhys is absolutely 100% correct. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! Oh my god, the devil must be wearing ice skates...

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

Klangiron Skullthumpa · Sat Mar 30, 2002 8:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by SyrRhys:
As for padding, you *have* to wear a quilted foundation garment anyway;

If it were up to me I'd wear a full gambesion. Howeversince I live in central Louisiana I'd probably overheat before I made it onto the field. With our humidity I afraid that all the sweat it would soak to help cool would just sit there and get heavy.

If, on the other hand, your couter is round and flat and touches the point of your elbow like a lot of SCA armor does, then you might consider wearing an elbow pad under your foundation garment.

Noper, made sure its dished enough.

I've read a lot about geting them deep. Mine probably could be deeper but I can bend it far enough for my chubby arms.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Llywelyn · Post by **Llywelyn** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 8:54 pm

Greetings,

I use and highly recomend the one piece pads that are sort of like a tube with elastic on one side and padding on the other. They work very well. I have seen lots of other arms that just sort of hang there and don't seem to fit tight to the elbow. I don't know how anyone could fight like that.

I love mine. I have seen ones that just have a couple straps but I find they don't work. The elastic tube works well because it keeps tight on your elbow evenly.

I think cooper puts them out.

Llywelyn

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Stay open minded, but not so open minded that your brains fall out.

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I am neater with a 5lbs. cross pein than with a ball point pen!

SyrRhys · Post by **SyrRhys** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 10:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Klangiron Skullthumpa:
If it were up to me I'd wear a full gambesion. Howeversince I live in central Louisiana I'd probably overheat before I made it onto the field. With our humidity I afraid that all the sweat it would soak to help cool would just sit there and get heavy <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*Please* believe me... the hotter and more humid it is the *more* you want a quilted foundation garment. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but it's the truth. For a long time I refused to wear one because all the SCAdians told me I shouldn't, but when I finally did my life got a *lot* better.

Oh, and one minor correction: A gambeson is a quilted garment worn *over* armor; there are several names for a quilted garment worn under armor, but these vary according to the type. The term "aketon" is one of the most commonly used.

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 12:07 am

I've gone to padding the armor, not the body. I neither need nor want the extra bulk of elastic binding up my knees or elbows.

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 12:11 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Alcyoneus:
I've gone to padding the armor, not the body. I neither need nor want the extra bulk of elastic binding up my knees or elbows.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm ALL about padding the body.... "Why yes I'll have that supersized!!!"

JP

freiman the minstrel · Sun Mar 31, 2002 2:18 am

Sir Rhys,

I believe I agree with you.

Due to a field repair at Pennsic this past year, I have one articulated elbow whith three straps (one above, one below, and one on the actual elbow joint) and one arm with just the straps above and below the elbow.

The arm with three straps stays where it's supposed to be, the other does not.

I have noticed, however, that there is some kind of "pressure point" on the inside of the elbow that my strap presses against. It makes my fingers not want to close tightly around my sword. I also feel like I am losing some fingertip finese.

Am I the only one in the universe who has this problem? How can I prevent it?

Also, I fought in Oxford, Mississippi. A thin cotton gambeson will "wick away" the sweat, and one you get a good sweat going, it will make you much cooler much faster. You gotta get that sweat going to start the process though.

It's also period, and you can get a seamstress to sew you a gambeson a lot cheaper than you can get an armorer to make you a new, more period looking rig.

It's a hard sell in this particular area, as many of the big sticks in the area fight without any body armor beyone kidney belts and tunics.

Stoffel · Post by **Stoffel** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 10:39 am

As far as center straps go for elbows, unless you are going strickly for period, Ive found a nice solution to it. I buy a nylon dog colar at Petsmart, one that has no holes, and can buckle anywhere along the strap becuase of the loose weave of the nylon. Not only does this make fitting the strap easy, but there is almost no binding in the strap like you would find in a leather one of the same size.

SyrRhys · Post by **SyrRhys** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 11:19 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by freiman the minstrel:
I have noticed, however, that there is some kind of "pressure point" on the inside of the elbow that my strap presses against. It makes my fingers not want to close tightly around my sword. I also feel like I am losing some fingertip finese.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you wearing an aketon? One of the reasons people dislike the strap against the inside of the elbow is that they don't wear a proper foundation garment. The padding on the inside of the elbow is important for making that strap less restrictive.

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 11:38 am

I'll say arming coat too.

I live in Alabama and i fight in one of the 3 my wife made year round.

The only sports padding i have on are some light wrestlers gell knees, no need for anyting more. Mundane padding adds bulk and holds in heat, a linnen or cotton arming coat is vastly superior.

Noe · Post by **Noe** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 1:22 pm

Re: Gambeson/aketon -- get one, you life will be much better.

Re: strap across the inner elbow -- I agree, it makes a world of difference. However, go for narrow, but thick. It also makes difference in the comfort level.

Re: Padding. If you find that your require OOP padding, take an old mouse pad. Cut a wedge out of one end and sew the edges together with artificial sinew. Make sure to use the clothe side against your skin. you will thank me later. If you can make a pouch inside your gambeson/aketon, so much the better.

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The defining characteristic of fanaticism is the inability to understand why everyone else is not a fanatic.

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 3:40 pm

Another factor on the strap is to make sure that you

a) attach the strap very deeply inside the cop and
b) make sure the buckle is on the side of your elbow not in the crease, i.e. so that when you bend your arm it doesn't bind on the buckle. I know that this seems obvious, but its not.

Klangiron Skullthumpa · Mon Apr 01, 2002 7:18 pm

I want to thank everbody for the tons of advise. I've sent most of the weekend tweaking the arms and they're nearly done. I still have to pad and strap them and they're ugly as sin but I think they're great. These are my first attempt at articulation and arm protection in general. They're made off of AB's pattern in the archive and the only real problem I'm seeing right now is that the forearms appear to be a bit long and narrow for me. I'll have to tweak that a bit more and will try to get some pics posted soon. Again thanks for all the help.