I have hammering for a couple months now and have been pretty pleased with the results I've been getting with one exception.........I can't dish a spaulder cop!!! It never quite looks as rounded as it should. From the side it looks pretty flat.
I've got 2 seperate dishes carved, one a little deeper than the other and a fairly big dishing hammer (compliments of Clang). Everything I've read suggests this should be a simple process but I'm just not getting it. I spent 2 hours this morning on one cop and all I managed to do well was raise 3 blisters on my hammer hand.
My practice on flaring, creasing and rolling have been good so why the h*ll can't I make my spaulder cop look very rounded?
If I had any web hosting, I'd post some pictures so you could see how pathetic it is.
Does anyone have any advice other than what's posted in the archive essays? I'd love to hear some more advice.
bex
BEG: Dishing problems
One of the most important things I've found for dishing is having the work at the correct height! Too high and you aren't getting enough force behind your swing, too low and well, it gets really uncomfortable 
Around belly button height seems to work best for me, experiment with wooden blocks to adjust your height or something to that effect. I have to stand on 4"x4"s when I use some things in the shop since they were optimized for a person 6" taller than me.
Another thing I find helpfull is to hold the work so that the pressure I'm applying keeps the work from flipping back at me. That way the metal has to expand rather than bend toward me. So for example you're about to hit the part nearest you. The part furthest from you will try and move up and back toward you, so you hold it down.
Sometimes a smaller and deeper depression is helpfull too as it concentrates the force. Just make a hole slightly bigger than your hammer.
I hope that helps you out. Good luck
Bartok
Around belly button height seems to work best for me, experiment with wooden blocks to adjust your height or something to that effect. I have to stand on 4"x4"s when I use some things in the shop since they were optimized for a person 6" taller than me.
Another thing I find helpfull is to hold the work so that the pressure I'm applying keeps the work from flipping back at me. That way the metal has to expand rather than bend toward me. So for example you're about to hit the part nearest you. The part furthest from you will try and move up and back toward you, so you hold it down.
Sometimes a smaller and deeper depression is helpfull too as it concentrates the force. Just make a hole slightly bigger than your hammer.
I hope that helps you out. Good luck
Bartok
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Gaston de Clermont
- Archive Member
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- Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2002 2:01 am
- Location: Austin, Texas USA
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It's hard to tell exactly what's going wrong without looking at your tools and watching you work. The four most likely issues are your dish, your hammer, your metal and your technique.
I'd try to make a dish with a radius a little smaller than what you want your final product to have. This can be a surprisingly small dish, maybe 5 inches across for a spaulder. It doesn't have to be a full hemisphere, since a portion of that will do, as long as it's got enough curve to it.
A raw hide mallet, or a smooth spherical steel hammer with a radius a little smaller than your final product will probably work best. My favorite dishing hammer is a cross pien that I ground the rounded face on to a sphere with about a 2.5 inch diameter.
Try working in 16 gauge mild steel. After three hours of hammering, you may have work hardened it, so heating it up red hot and letting it cool slowly (anealing) might make it more workable.
Try working in spirals. Hammer from the center in a spiral out toward the edges or from the edges in toward the center. It might help to mark your path in sharpie so it's easier to follow.
Good luck!
Gaston
I'd try to make a dish with a radius a little smaller than what you want your final product to have. This can be a surprisingly small dish, maybe 5 inches across for a spaulder. It doesn't have to be a full hemisphere, since a portion of that will do, as long as it's got enough curve to it.
A raw hide mallet, or a smooth spherical steel hammer with a radius a little smaller than your final product will probably work best. My favorite dishing hammer is a cross pien that I ground the rounded face on to a sphere with about a 2.5 inch diameter.
Try working in 16 gauge mild steel. After three hours of hammering, you may have work hardened it, so heating it up red hot and letting it cool slowly (anealing) might make it more workable.
Try working in spirals. Hammer from the center in a spiral out toward the edges or from the edges in toward the center. It might help to mark your path in sharpie so it's easier to follow.
Good luck!
Gaston
bexster
it sounds like you are not transfering enough force to the piece you are working on.
use a scrap piece and try dishing it in a dish made out out a two inch pipe end. the pipe will leave awful marks but it will show you what I am trying to describe.
I used a brass dish for almost two years after determining a madrona(hard)wood was not producing fast enough results on 18ga stainless.. you get real good at striking directly in the center of the piece and recentering the piece before striking again. with a stump you can just move the hammer strike a bit over to one side. its what I started using before I jumped to heavy machines.
if you must use wood make the dish and the hammer face smaller. a wide hammer face and dish spreads the force possibly making your blow ineffective.
to clean up your work planishing works well. I also used a shotput sized ball against a stump for shaping after dishing. to save your energy while cleaning up a piece you can hang the large abll from a pulley and operate it with your foot.
mrks
Squire to the R+ded Sir Aveloc
it sounds like you are not transfering enough force to the piece you are working on.
use a scrap piece and try dishing it in a dish made out out a two inch pipe end. the pipe will leave awful marks but it will show you what I am trying to describe.
I used a brass dish for almost two years after determining a madrona(hard)wood was not producing fast enough results on 18ga stainless.. you get real good at striking directly in the center of the piece and recentering the piece before striking again. with a stump you can just move the hammer strike a bit over to one side. its what I started using before I jumped to heavy machines.
if you must use wood make the dish and the hammer face smaller. a wide hammer face and dish spreads the force possibly making your blow ineffective.
to clean up your work planishing works well. I also used a shotput sized ball against a stump for shaping after dishing. to save your energy while cleaning up a piece you can hang the large abll from a pulley and operate it with your foot.
mrks
Squire to the R+ded Sir Aveloc
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bexter12
- Archive Member
- Posts: 505
- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Minford, Ohio USA
- Contact:
thanks for the suggestions everyone. I think the most accurate assessment is the one about the dishing bowls being wrong. I suck at carving them out.
I have purchased a few steel dishing forms that should be here soon and I hope that they give me a little more direction.
I gotta admit, each time I try one of these, I get better at it. My original post was out of frustration at not getting the results I wanted right away. When I look back to pictures of my first couple of attempts, i can see that I'm definitely improving.
One of my biggest problems is that I've never seen a single hammer blow in person by a real armourer. I've read a lot and seen pictures, but I've yet to witness it myself. I tend to be a better visual learner.
Never fear, I will keep working on it until I get it right.
bex
I have purchased a few steel dishing forms that should be here soon and I hope that they give me a little more direction.
I gotta admit, each time I try one of these, I get better at it. My original post was out of frustration at not getting the results I wanted right away. When I look back to pictures of my first couple of attempts, i can see that I'm definitely improving.
One of my biggest problems is that I've never seen a single hammer blow in person by a real armourer. I've read a lot and seen pictures, but I've yet to witness it myself. I tend to be a better visual learner.
Never fear, I will keep working on it until I get it right.
bex
Hi Bexter,
When you get your metal dishes use a split head rawhide hammer. Work from the outer diameter to the center in a spiral sequence. Move to the center slowly. It will take a couple or more passes. Make sure you push the metal to the bottom of the dish. Try to use the center of the dish as much as possible by moving the area you are striking to the center of the dish. With some practice you will be able to form a piece that requires little or no planishing. Check your progress often my looking across the surface and sliding your fingers across the outer surace. When you find low spots go back to the dish and work out the low areas. Do not be affraid to hit the part in to the dish hard. You want to make your part conform to the dish.
A sample of the hammer to use can be found here http://www.contractorstools.com/garlandsplithead.html Use a 1-3/4" or 2" dia. face. If you use this style of hammer the faces are flat when new. You can grind of the sharp eges a little. Before long the rawhide will dome from usage. Try giving it a few hard hits into the dish you are using to help start the doming.
I hope this helps
Melchior
------------------
Melchior Erasmi von Frankfurt
AKA Neil Erasmus
In Service to the Dream
Visit my site
www.geocities.com/neilerasmus/index.html
When you get your metal dishes use a split head rawhide hammer. Work from the outer diameter to the center in a spiral sequence. Move to the center slowly. It will take a couple or more passes. Make sure you push the metal to the bottom of the dish. Try to use the center of the dish as much as possible by moving the area you are striking to the center of the dish. With some practice you will be able to form a piece that requires little or no planishing. Check your progress often my looking across the surface and sliding your fingers across the outer surace. When you find low spots go back to the dish and work out the low areas. Do not be affraid to hit the part in to the dish hard. You want to make your part conform to the dish.
A sample of the hammer to use can be found here http://www.contractorstools.com/garlandsplithead.html Use a 1-3/4" or 2" dia. face. If you use this style of hammer the faces are flat when new. You can grind of the sharp eges a little. Before long the rawhide will dome from usage. Try giving it a few hard hits into the dish you are using to help start the doming.
I hope this helps
Melchior
------------------
Melchior Erasmi von Frankfurt
AKA Neil Erasmus
In Service to the Dream
Visit my site
www.geocities.com/neilerasmus/index.html
There is going to be an Aethelmearc Academy in June that you may be interested in attending. The reason I am mentioning it is because it will be in Huntington WV. Which is fairly close to you I believe. There are going to be several classes on armour making and design which you may find helpfull. It is as an addition to Ted's weekend. I will probably be giving a full announcement a little later on this board.
Langdon
Langdon
It is June 15th. Here is the page that has the event flier and a list of classes.
http://www.valgardr.net/~aecademy/summer02/
Right now I am the only armour teacher signed up. Three more of my guys are working out their classes and descriptions. They should be signed up this weekend. (Or at least that is My plan for them.)
http://www.valgardr.net/~aecademy/summer02/
Right now I am the only armour teacher signed up. Three more of my guys are working out their classes and descriptions. They should be signed up this weekend. (Or at least that is My plan for them.)