leather wax

Redboar · Post by **Redboar** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 9:50 am

I am wanting to wax some leather grieves and was wondering if you could give me the name of some good wax. I haven't waxed leather before:0 Do I wax the whole thing or just the front(smooth) side. Thanks for the help.

Rev. George · Post by **Rev. George** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 9:57 am

I'm partial to Gulf wax parrafin. its cheap, available at most every grocery store, and simple to use. you migth want to add some stearate flakes to it, but otherwise its cool...

As for waxing, i'm a fan of immersion, so i guess the answer is "both"

-+G

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:03 am

The Only problem with JUST parafin, Rev, is that it can get brittle...
I mix half parafin half bees wax. It conditions the leather as well as hardening it.

I also suggest that you heat the wax until liquid and spread it on with a paintbrush
then use a heat gun to melt it in.
it makes spreading it evenly and saturating the leather completely, much easier.
It also allows you to control the heat so you dont ruin the piece.

Arland · Post by **Arland** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:53 am

It's also got a low flash point. If you get it too hot it can start itself on fire too.

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Rev. George · Post by **Rev. George** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 11:36 am

I still stand by the techniqu of actuially boiling it in wax, as it hardens, not just by impregnation of a liquified solid, but also by heat denaturization...(the best of both worlds)

To me, bees wax is a little sticky...

as to the flash point... if its that hot, my armour doesnt need to be there...LOL

-+G

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 1:37 pm

And if you use waxed twine ties, you can be a candle!

Edric · Post by **Edric** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 3:03 pm

I use half parafin half bees wax also. Parafin can be baught at any grocery store in the canning section.

Get the bee's wax here:
http://www.silverbowhoney.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?product=wax

It's $3.50/lb or $50 for a 16 pounder. That's pretty much the cheapest around. OR you could go to a hobby store and buy it for $10 a pound.

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Warren · Post by **Warren** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 9:15 pm

50/50 bees and paraffin. Two ways to do it.

Melt the wax in a large heavy plastic bag in boiling water, dip your leather which has been heated in the oven,110F or brush on with a small paint brush if its small enough.

Use an old double boiler and steam melt your wax. Or use an old electric frying pan outside that you can regulate the temperature with.

I don't reccommend the other ways, as its messy, and you run a fire hazard. Hot wax hits electric element. nasty.

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freiman the minstrel · Wed Apr 03, 2002 2:58 am

Redboar,

I looked through the responses to you post.

Before I say anything, I expect that everybody on this archive knows more about making waxed leather armor than I do. I am going to post my method, and I bet the others will help me to improve my method.

Also, (Duke Sir) Cariadoc has an atricle in which he seems (to me) to prove conclusively that water was used in period rather than wax. The article is called "the perfect armor". He makes a pretty good case.

Gulf wax parafin is an excellent product for this use, but I believe others may be better. I have never felt the need to look for anything better.

Always use a double boiler, unless you have an extra house handy. Wax is listed in the special forces handbook as an excellent incendiary, when used properly.

I do my waxing by first finishing the leather that must be waxed. Edges trim a little different when the leather is waxed, and it will look different.

Make sure thae leather is completely dry and clean. If it has a wet spot, the leather will "burn" and stretch, and thus not fit right. It also looks bad.

I submerge the entire part in wax, and wait until the bubbles stop coming up. then I allow the waxed piece to dry on the window sil in the sun.

the wax, when cool, will leave a white film on the outside of the coppe, and this can be fixed by either wiping it away, or heating with a heat gun or blowdryer. You may have to do this two or times. I prefer to heat away the white film, it seems to work better.

hope this helps.

Arland · Post by **Arland** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 12:18 pm

Well I can tell you, that I've never been able to make leather armor with wax that was easily cut with a knife. Even when hardened it does't resist cutting very well.

All the information that I've gotten from David Counts tells me that hot/boiling water makes it hard. Apply wax waterproofs it and makes it denser, by adding more wax.

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Rev. George · Post by **Rev. George** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 12:38 pm

an interesting thought:

Most day to day candles in the MA were made of tallow: solidified beef fat. is it possible that this is the reason for our wax/oil conundrum?

-+G

Lodhur · Post by **Lodhur** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 10:41 pm

Wax-saturated armour, as we know it, is NOT period, nor would it have been effective in period. They may have lacquered armour, or treated with pitch of some sort, as Russ has indicated.

Cuir boulli meant water. Waxed leather was used for bags, flasks, & other utensils. Waxed leather may *seem* hard, but I guarantee to you that it will guide a blade in like butter.

Now, if you wanted to _waterproof_ your cuir boulli, a light coating of floorwax, or a very quick dip in a paraffin/beeswax mixture can be very effective. As long as the wax stays near the surface.

If our ancestors had fought with blunt sticks only, they might have worn wax boiled leather. Provided they had enough extra left over from candlemaking. An unlikely scenario, on both counts.

Warren · Post by **Warren** » Thu Apr 04, 2002 12:19 am

look again at my post. I said to dip the leather after hardening or heating in the oven. Do not saturate. Blades go through saturated waxed leather like butter. Just a quick dip or brushed on the hot leather and allowed to cool.

That's it.

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JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Thu Apr 04, 2002 12:59 am

I thought he said "Wax the leather". I use mink oil, which is a grease, and while expensive, is less oily than neat's foot, and can be polished up nicely. I use it on all my horse tack as well as armour strapping. On belts and pouches, scabbards and shields it works well. On the flesh side of bear or deer hides, it maintains a greasy feel for quite some time, but better that than cracking.
Vikings made their sails from wool saturated in bear fat, and their ropes from greased walrus hide.

By the way, what is parafin, some form of insect excretion? Never heard of that. I do my cuir-bouilli by boiling pure beeswax and tossing in the hide. The longer it's in, the smaller and harder it becomes. Water molding works, but doesn't hold up in that sea spray when on board in the North Sea, much less when fording rivers. Nothing like crossing over to meet a few Saxons in soggy leather with the consistancy of a wet blanket....

Rev. George · Post by **Rev. George** » Thu Apr 04, 2002 12:59 pm

parafin, if i'm not mistaken, is a petroleum by product. essentially the same tye of reaction that turns parts of animal and vegetable oils into a wax work with certain petro-oils. In period, you pretty much had 2 choices for candle wax: beeswax and animal wax. beeswax was, for example, prized by the religious, because it burned cleaner, smelled better, and some sorta belief that bees could heard God's whispers(??)

Tallow candles were more common. beef fat (possibly other critters fat too) was rendered and forced to undergo a reaction that formed a stable solid wax.

Other natural sources of wax include carnuba, which is found in maerican jungles, bayberry, which produces a really nice smelling wax, but is very innefficient in production. many other plants that exist in more saline environments will produce wax as a survival measure, but again, i think, in period, you are looking at tallow, bees wax (and possibly baby's fat if you are awitch...LOL)

-+G

Warren · Post by **Warren** » Thu Apr 04, 2002 5:40 pm

Please let me clarify a couple of things.

Cuir Boulli refers to boiling leather

du cuir cuit refers to baked leather

Parafin wax contains petroleum products
Beeswax is natural. Both are rendered from natural sources, but the parafin is certainly more dangerous.

Leather which has been hardened still needs to be waxed if it is to be used in a damp climate. Sealing the leather is the key. Wax does not harden the leather but rather seals hardened leather. The heat and moisture applied to the leather from the wax will harden the leather somewhat. The longer you heat leather, the harder it gets, because you are cooking out the natural oils that make it supple.

When I water harden leather, all leather is cased(soaked until saturated)(this is where the term cuir bouli comes from. Leather can be boiled to harden it too.) in a non-metallic container(wash basin) Then, I remove the leather and allow it to drip off until no more water drips, but it is malleable like clay in my hands. I then slowly begin to shape it to what I need or mould it. As it drys, there is a natural hardening process taking place. Then once the leather is beginning to firm up, I place it in a 200F oven on the rack, on edge not on the flat. This allows even heating of the leather without scorching it too badly. As it heats up it dries and the water evaporates taking with it the oils that make the leather supple.(du cuir cuit) Once the leather is firm, I take it out and allow it to cool and harden the rest of the way. I allow it to dry out completely, but you must shape it a little as it's drying out so that it does not warp.

After this, you can reheat the leather just until its hot to touch, and brush on melted wax of your choice, I use 50/50 parafin beeswax mix because beeswax is soft and malleable, and parafin is strong and brittle, but combined, make a good combination for armour. strength and flexibility.

If you saturate your leather with wax, you compact the fibers inside the leather and make them easy to cut, but if you just do a quick dip or brush on, you seal the leather, prevent the innerfibres from softening because of the wax and harden the surface a little more.

This is from piles of attempts and different trials to get the best overall function out of the leather.

The weight of the leather will also let you know how long to dip for. I have leather that is 3/16" thick, and is hot stuffed or saturated with waxes and oils. It cuts like butter, but also leather with no wax or oils that cuts like iron that is the same thickness. Dip or brush on the wax to seal. Hardening should already be done already.

I hope I haven't confused anyone here, but it is important to understand the process. Sorry for waxing long winded!

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Ian Glenagary · Post by **Ian Glenagary** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 6:35 am

I have been doing leather armor for quite a while. It's really not very hard. The most important part is getting your pieces formed wet first. After they are dry, bake them in your oven at about 200d F for about an hour. I usually leave the pieces set for a day or two afterwards but you don't really have to. The articles will be fairly tough after this but through use will begin to soften up a little. Next put a disposible pan with your wax in it in your oven at no more than 200d F and allow in to completely melt. After it has melted carefully dip your armor pieces into the wax and allow it to soak until the bubbles stop. Carefully remove the pieces and wipe off the excess wax. I haven't had any problems with any of the articles I've made And if they need to be reformed or rehardened all you have to do is reheat. I don't believe the arguments that wax is a lubricant and makes wax impregnated leather easier to cut. I've tried it. Untreated leather isn't very difficult, heated but unwaxed is only stlightly harder but waxed leather is pretty hard to cut. Take it for what its worth its always worked for me.

Lodhur · Post by **Lodhur** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 10:29 pm

The process which Warren described is >precisely< correct. Warren, you haved laid out in clear & concise terms what I & others have been trying to tell people for years. Would you care to submit that to JT, (our editor in chief, as it were) as a permanent article to be posted in the "Essays" section?
Also, I think Norman was looking for a short set of instructions like this, to add to his article on the 'Red Kaganate' site.

Warren · Post by **Warren** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 12:30 am

Sure, JT if you are reading this, please post as a short article on waxing leather. With my compliments.

There are of course a multitude of ways to wax leather, but I suggest this way as I find it the easiest on my brain and least time consuming.

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warclub_33 · Post by **warclub_33** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 9:35 am

I agree with Lodhur 100%, I have been trying for almost 2 years now to get started with leather armouring and have read all there is on the net, at least all I can find. Warrens' post made me understand more and feel more confident in what I was trying to do than anything else I have tried. Thanks Warren and please keep posting.

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