working in spring steel
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Stoffel
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working in spring steel
I'm contemplating making my future armour out of spring steel, something I have never seen, used, or fought in before. Is there a reason not many people work in it? I have a hard time trying to work stainless, will spring be harder to shape than stainless and will I have problems with it cracking while shaping? I'm most likely going to be raising the elbows out of mild and just heat treating them, because I've already got them cut out and partially raised as it is. so, why dont more poeple work in spring steel?
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David Hagler
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Personally, it's hard to say why it's not more plentiful. Could be the cost of materials. Also, mild is more readily available to some people. Me for one.
In which case, I learned with mild and it just stuck, I guess.
Maybe it's a thing about just using what you are more used to.
I don't think untreated spring would be hard to work. If it is untreated, it should be no problem. The toughness should only present itself when the treating is finished.
But, on one hand, maybe it's like this:
OK, Ive run out of metal-can't wait for the order to come in-got to do something-why not go to LOWES, they have small sheets there. Mild steel only. No spring steel.
Can't find spring steel at your local store-usually.
That, and the price. Spring is a lot higher.
I can't even begin to tell you how much sheet
it sometimes takes just to get one small pattern right. I sure would not want to make try-out pieces out of spring. I would go in debt.
But mainly, for me, I just love mild steel as it is. Plain and simple.
The benefits of spring are great on the field where impacts are heavy.
But, for reproductions for collectors, it's just not feasible. Plain mild steel can usually be hammer hardened and quenched and hold up well, mainly because most of it will only be sitting on a hearth or display thingy throughout it's life.
For the hitting game, I DO think spring should be looked further into than it has been. And I know some people working in it now are producing some fine results.
The relative weight loss for a piece is great.
However, it's not too far from the weight we use for repro's. But I can see where it would be a grand benefit when you are sweating it out on the field.
Just me wandering through thoughts. Maybe others have some ideas why. D
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FIRESIDE ARMOURY
www.firesidearmoury.com
In which case, I learned with mild and it just stuck, I guess.
Maybe it's a thing about just using what you are more used to.
I don't think untreated spring would be hard to work. If it is untreated, it should be no problem. The toughness should only present itself when the treating is finished.
But, on one hand, maybe it's like this:
OK, Ive run out of metal-can't wait for the order to come in-got to do something-why not go to LOWES, they have small sheets there. Mild steel only. No spring steel.
Can't find spring steel at your local store-usually.
That, and the price. Spring is a lot higher.
I can't even begin to tell you how much sheet
it sometimes takes just to get one small pattern right. I sure would not want to make try-out pieces out of spring. I would go in debt.
But mainly, for me, I just love mild steel as it is. Plain and simple.
The benefits of spring are great on the field where impacts are heavy.
But, for reproductions for collectors, it's just not feasible. Plain mild steel can usually be hammer hardened and quenched and hold up well, mainly because most of it will only be sitting on a hearth or display thingy throughout it's life.
For the hitting game, I DO think spring should be looked further into than it has been. And I know some people working in it now are producing some fine results.
The relative weight loss for a piece is great.
However, it's not too far from the weight we use for repro's. But I can see where it would be a grand benefit when you are sweating it out on the field.
Just me wandering through thoughts. Maybe others have some ideas why. D
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FIRESIDE ARMOURY
www.firesidearmoury.com
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Gundo
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It's expensive, and you can't generally find it in sheet at scrapyards, or even many steelyards.
It work-hardens similarly to 300-series stainless and is less forgiving, so the ability to anneal your work in progress is a definite plus.
I'm not going to buy a kiln. If I turned out a harness every month for the next five years, a kiln large enough to treat a breastplate would not pay for itself compared to having the treatment done professionally.
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Gundobad,
Wise Ogre Armory
'Soylens viridis homines est.'
A position worth taking, is worth defending.
It work-hardens similarly to 300-series stainless and is less forgiving, so the ability to anneal your work in progress is a definite plus.
I'm not going to buy a kiln. If I turned out a harness every month for the next five years, a kiln large enough to treat a breastplate would not pay for itself compared to having the treatment done professionally.
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Gundobad,
Wise Ogre Armory
'Soylens viridis homines est.'
A position worth taking, is worth defending.
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white mountain armoury
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Ive found it behaves similar to mild when shaping, a bit harder but not as hard as stainless, Even not heat treated its a better steel than mild.
The reason you dont see much is the cost and the extra processes, the heat treating and scale removal.
I think as more people see it it will become more popular, and as Gundo pointed out a kiln large enough for helms or breasts would be costly, also items like a breast realy need to be mounted on a frame for heat treating to controll the warping and twisting
The reason you dont see much is the cost and the extra processes, the heat treating and scale removal.
I think as more people see it it will become more popular, and as Gundo pointed out a kiln large enough for helms or breasts would be costly, also items like a breast realy need to be mounted on a frame for heat treating to controll the warping and twisting
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Stoffel
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almost sounds like it can be more trouble than its worth. Maybe I should just stick to gothic armour with lots of flutes. I was planning on a style similar to the churburg suit with the large guard braces on the left(111, AAOMK, dont know the collection number of it offhand though) and didnt want to have to use 16g to keep it from being dented heavily. I dont have access to a forge so I couldnt heat treat it.
About how much am I looking to spend on say a 4x8 sheet of 18g spring steel? What about carbon steels, can I get that in sheet form? As you can see, I know next to nothing about metalurgy, I usually just buy either 16 or 18g cold rolled, and havent experimented with much else. I want something that I dont have to beat the dents out of every practice, looks period(I dont want stainless or aluminum), and can be at least 18g, because one layer of 16g is heavy enough, but I want to occasionally wear the guardbraces and thats just that much more weight that I have working against me.
About how much am I looking to spend on say a 4x8 sheet of 18g spring steel? What about carbon steels, can I get that in sheet form? As you can see, I know next to nothing about metalurgy, I usually just buy either 16 or 18g cold rolled, and havent experimented with much else. I want something that I dont have to beat the dents out of every practice, looks period(I dont want stainless or aluminum), and can be at least 18g, because one layer of 16g is heavy enough, but I want to occasionally wear the guardbraces and thats just that much more weight that I have working against me.
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wcallen
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I think that spring is not used by most people because they can't get it easily and cheaply.
It works beautifully. You really can do almost anything to it that you can do to mild.
By the way - there are a lot of spring steels out there, I prefer to call it 1050 since that is what I use and I think is the best all around compromise for armour.
We got some free
- about 200 pounds of 18 gauge. It turned out to be the best thing we ever found.
Anybody that can work in mild can work in spring. Stainless is a real pain to work, 1050 is just a little bit harder to move around and some harder to grind.
The cost is annoying, but it can be about $1 per pound (or less in insane quantities).
We need to think about it this way - if you are making a $500 item, isn't it worth spending $15 instead of $3 on the steel? You usually spend more on the abrasives than the steel anyway, so why not work in something which will give you a better result?
Every time I have 'done something in mild just to see how it will turn out' I have been really annoyed by the finished result. It really should have been 1050.
Find a way to buy the spring.
Someone on the archive get together a 'sampler pack' type order that will let a lot of people get a variety of gauges and still allow a reasonable price (I don't actually need any now so I won't be putting this together).
As the real authenticity freaks would say - nothing we use will really be right (not the right impurities - esp. the silicon layers), so we won't get 'authentic' results. 1050 is as good as we can get for a good modern compromise - at least for later 15th cent. on. I haven't seen a lot of studies of the earlier stuff.
In short. Use 1050. Please. Whenever possible. Obviously this is just my opinion, but when have you seen a pair of normal steel 18g mitten gauntlets (untempered) that lasted almost 20 years in heavy combat....
Wade
It works beautifully. You really can do almost anything to it that you can do to mild.
By the way - there are a lot of spring steels out there, I prefer to call it 1050 since that is what I use and I think is the best all around compromise for armour.
We got some free
- about 200 pounds of 18 gauge. It turned out to be the best thing we ever found.Anybody that can work in mild can work in spring. Stainless is a real pain to work, 1050 is just a little bit harder to move around and some harder to grind.
The cost is annoying, but it can be about $1 per pound (or less in insane quantities).
We need to think about it this way - if you are making a $500 item, isn't it worth spending $15 instead of $3 on the steel? You usually spend more on the abrasives than the steel anyway, so why not work in something which will give you a better result?
Every time I have 'done something in mild just to see how it will turn out' I have been really annoyed by the finished result. It really should have been 1050.
Find a way to buy the spring.
Someone on the archive get together a 'sampler pack' type order that will let a lot of people get a variety of gauges and still allow a reasonable price (I don't actually need any now so I won't be putting this together).
As the real authenticity freaks would say - nothing we use will really be right (not the right impurities - esp. the silicon layers), so we won't get 'authentic' results. 1050 is as good as we can get for a good modern compromise - at least for later 15th cent. on. I haven't seen a lot of studies of the earlier stuff.
In short. Use 1050. Please. Whenever possible. Obviously this is just my opinion, but when have you seen a pair of normal steel 18g mitten gauntlets (untempered) that lasted almost 20 years in heavy combat....
Wade
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Olaf Skalle Krossar
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Stoffel,
Spring steel is actually steel with a higher carbon rating than ‘mild’ (cold rolled) steel has. What makes it ‘spring’ is the heat treatment and tempering that follows the working of the metal. It’s available in a number of carbon ratings that will give the treated piece different springiness and brittleness. As the others have said, carbon steels are slightly more difficult to work, but even untreated will give you a superior piece when it’s finished. As Mr. Allen said, 1050 is closer to the historical version. However, I have been working with 1074, which I get from McMaster-Carr in 15’ to 24’ x 48’ sheets. The primary reason I don’t use the 1054 is the awkwardness of having it shipped - most of the sources I’m aware of require a pretty large purchase, while McMaster-Carr sells 1074 by the piece and ships by UPS. On another note, Craig Nadler has found a new source for 1054 and I’m thinking of going ahead with a big purchase sometime in the future.
We’ve been using a heat treatment facility in Round Rock to handle our pieces, but are having problems with the bigger stuff. They are having a tough time preventing breastplates and such from warping. And for us, it’s pretty expensive to use a separate facility if they are only doing a piece or two at a time. In the end, I’m planning on getting a kiln and doing it myself but we have to add an extension to the shop before that can happen.
You're down in Corpus, aren't you? We're located about 4 hours north on 281 just south of Johnson City. If you want to get some metal when I get around to buying some more, let me know and I’ll get you some also. If you get in the area give us a call and maybe come by for a visit.
Olaf
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Olaf Skalle Krossar
Chieftain
Armourworks
(formerly The Armory of Westlig Stjerne)
www.armourworks.com
thefolks@armourworks.com
Spring steel is actually steel with a higher carbon rating than ‘mild’ (cold rolled) steel has. What makes it ‘spring’ is the heat treatment and tempering that follows the working of the metal. It’s available in a number of carbon ratings that will give the treated piece different springiness and brittleness. As the others have said, carbon steels are slightly more difficult to work, but even untreated will give you a superior piece when it’s finished. As Mr. Allen said, 1050 is closer to the historical version. However, I have been working with 1074, which I get from McMaster-Carr in 15’ to 24’ x 48’ sheets. The primary reason I don’t use the 1054 is the awkwardness of having it shipped - most of the sources I’m aware of require a pretty large purchase, while McMaster-Carr sells 1074 by the piece and ships by UPS. On another note, Craig Nadler has found a new source for 1054 and I’m thinking of going ahead with a big purchase sometime in the future.
We’ve been using a heat treatment facility in Round Rock to handle our pieces, but are having problems with the bigger stuff. They are having a tough time preventing breastplates and such from warping. And for us, it’s pretty expensive to use a separate facility if they are only doing a piece or two at a time. In the end, I’m planning on getting a kiln and doing it myself but we have to add an extension to the shop before that can happen.
You're down in Corpus, aren't you? We're located about 4 hours north on 281 just south of Johnson City. If you want to get some metal when I get around to buying some more, let me know and I’ll get you some also. If you get in the area give us a call and maybe come by for a visit.
Olaf
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Olaf Skalle Krossar
Chieftain
Armourworks
(formerly The Armory of Westlig Stjerne)
www.armourworks.com
thefolks@armourworks.com