Hello,
I know that a lot of people are getting tired of this (hello Chef), but I will ask anyway. I have this beautiful bunch of Brig nails sitting at home wanting to be used. I am now looking for hints/essays on the subject. I do know that brigs were not backed by fabric, and I do own the "English Medieval Knight, 1400-1500 which has pictures of the type of brig I want to try to build. I have also looked at the patterns here on the archive.
I now have a few questions left:
1.Has anybody access to (or posted himself) an essay (preferrably with photos) on the construction of said type of brig? If so, could you be so lind as to point me the way. I would really think thgat a well written essay here on the AA would also help with a lot of the questions on Brigs that ´people are so tired of.
2.Has anybody worked the nails yet? I keep wondering how exactly I should set and preen them. Or what would be the best (step-by-step) way of folding them over and hammering them flat (Probably a stupid question, just want to make sure I do it right) I really want to do this right, adn it is my first metal armoring projet
Grateful for any hints and pointers
Sebastian
BEG: Brigandine and Brigandine nails Questions
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Sebastian K
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chef de chambre
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I would reccomend you look at Compleat Anachronist #69 - "The development of the coat of plates". It is one of the most accessible references on all sorts of cloth-covered armor, including 15C brigs.
It can be obtained very cheaply here:
http://www.sca.org/members/marketplace.html
------------------
Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak
http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/
It can be obtained very cheaply here:
http://www.sca.org/members/marketplace.html
------------------
Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak
http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/
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chef de chambre
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Hi Sebastian & All,
I always reccommend Michael Lacy's monograph - in point of fact it is the only compleate anachronist I reccommend, as it was held to a professional scholarly standard being his Masters Thesis.
That said, while there are some good ideas in it, it tells the history of the evolution of the defence, rather than any real practical advice on making them. His patterns are a very good general guide though.
The first thing to keep in mind is that the brigandine is a fittted defence, unlike the coat of plates. It is intended to be in the shape of a fashionable doublet of the era, and this is one of the keys to a successful reconstruction.
The first thing to begin the project is to pattern out a 4 panel doublet in the shape of a civilian doublet of the era. It should be slightly (ever so) larger than one you would wear over a shirt, as it has to go over whatever foundation garment you chose. The base garment needs to be a canvas of some type - mine is a hemp canvas, gotten online from a source often quoted by Sinric, but one I've never bothered to bookmark, so I leave it to him to post the link.
You need to chose the specific brigandine you wish to copy, and get as many pictures as you might. Fortunately for you, the Osprey book "The English Longbowman" has two very useful photographs (including an interior shot) of the very brigandine you seek to copy - it is one of the two I have based mine on as well. Some brigandines buckle at the shoulder, and some are indeed like doublet bodies with the shoulders one piece, in your case, the seam overlaps on the shoulder (front to back) and buckles shut.
Sew the canvas together,, and then pattern out your cover (allowing 1/4" or a little more all round to be able to hem the edge down over the back , so your foundation doesn't show. Now you are ready to pattern the plates. In example, the one you wish to make has 4 on the peplum, a waist plate thet is bent to flair out the skirt of the doublet, 4 above the waist plate, the lung plate, and then several plates abouve that, and a number of small plates around the shoulder and collar, that were literally cut as filler to fit rather than carefully patterned out.
It is important to note, since you are using the Graham Turner picture, that the nails in all cases only pass through one plate, and not through the one overlapped as well. His painting isn't clear on that point. In contrast, the collar plates and armhole plates are nailed to each other as well as the foundation, to give the edge of the garment a clear definition.
When patterning the plates, the size of the plates in these rows is dependant on YOUR size, as if you were taller in the torso than I, but are using the same number of plates, your plates will be slightly larger. Alloe for a 1/2" overlap (at least) with the rows of plates. Either that, or you ahve to add more plates to your row rather than making a slavish copy.
It is important to note that when patterning out the front plates, the doublet closure seam is on the centerline, but the left hand plates extend roughly an inch loner than the fabric edging, so when the garment is buckled closed, your torso front is defended ratherr than having a gap down the centerlint. The right hand side covers the overlap.
The key to getting the shape correct id the waist "kick plate", and having the overlap reverse from above to below the waist. Also, the outside edges of the front plates must at least slightly follow the 'hourglass' shape. If you don't do these things, form tailoring the doublet so it has this shape to begin with, and forcing the shape by following it in the plate pattern, then your brigandine will look like a tube rather than a tailored garment.
It is important to note that the plates fit into what is essentially a doublet, rather than the cloth being a cover over a harness as an afterthought.
If you have any further questions, please ask, but I think this covers most of the essentials.
Pattern the doublet for form and fit
Sew Foundation together - then work out plate pattern
Allow for the left hand underlap at closure point
remeber to reverse your plate patterns below and above the waist.
If you are patient, and pay attention to the small details, you will have success. If you slap it together, lord only nows the result.
It isn't an impossible task, just a very tedious one with lots of repetative work, requiring attention to small details to make it work right.
As we start nailing plates in, I'll provide some photographs. Sinric will be tinning my front plates shortly (he won't let me play with the molten tin!)
Next step is nailing together the front.
------------------
Bob R.
I always reccommend Michael Lacy's monograph - in point of fact it is the only compleate anachronist I reccommend, as it was held to a professional scholarly standard being his Masters Thesis.
That said, while there are some good ideas in it, it tells the history of the evolution of the defence, rather than any real practical advice on making them. His patterns are a very good general guide though.
The first thing to keep in mind is that the brigandine is a fittted defence, unlike the coat of plates. It is intended to be in the shape of a fashionable doublet of the era, and this is one of the keys to a successful reconstruction.
The first thing to begin the project is to pattern out a 4 panel doublet in the shape of a civilian doublet of the era. It should be slightly (ever so) larger than one you would wear over a shirt, as it has to go over whatever foundation garment you chose. The base garment needs to be a canvas of some type - mine is a hemp canvas, gotten online from a source often quoted by Sinric, but one I've never bothered to bookmark, so I leave it to him to post the link.
You need to chose the specific brigandine you wish to copy, and get as many pictures as you might. Fortunately for you, the Osprey book "The English Longbowman" has two very useful photographs (including an interior shot) of the very brigandine you seek to copy - it is one of the two I have based mine on as well. Some brigandines buckle at the shoulder, and some are indeed like doublet bodies with the shoulders one piece, in your case, the seam overlaps on the shoulder (front to back) and buckles shut.
Sew the canvas together,, and then pattern out your cover (allowing 1/4" or a little more all round to be able to hem the edge down over the back , so your foundation doesn't show. Now you are ready to pattern the plates. In example, the one you wish to make has 4 on the peplum, a waist plate thet is bent to flair out the skirt of the doublet, 4 above the waist plate, the lung plate, and then several plates abouve that, and a number of small plates around the shoulder and collar, that were literally cut as filler to fit rather than carefully patterned out.
It is important to note, since you are using the Graham Turner picture, that the nails in all cases only pass through one plate, and not through the one overlapped as well. His painting isn't clear on that point. In contrast, the collar plates and armhole plates are nailed to each other as well as the foundation, to give the edge of the garment a clear definition.
When patterning the plates, the size of the plates in these rows is dependant on YOUR size, as if you were taller in the torso than I, but are using the same number of plates, your plates will be slightly larger. Alloe for a 1/2" overlap (at least) with the rows of plates. Either that, or you ahve to add more plates to your row rather than making a slavish copy.
It is important to note that when patterning out the front plates, the doublet closure seam is on the centerline, but the left hand plates extend roughly an inch loner than the fabric edging, so when the garment is buckled closed, your torso front is defended ratherr than having a gap down the centerlint. The right hand side covers the overlap.
The key to getting the shape correct id the waist "kick plate", and having the overlap reverse from above to below the waist. Also, the outside edges of the front plates must at least slightly follow the 'hourglass' shape. If you don't do these things, form tailoring the doublet so it has this shape to begin with, and forcing the shape by following it in the plate pattern, then your brigandine will look like a tube rather than a tailored garment.
It is important to note that the plates fit into what is essentially a doublet, rather than the cloth being a cover over a harness as an afterthought.
If you have any further questions, please ask, but I think this covers most of the essentials.
Pattern the doublet for form and fit
Sew Foundation together - then work out plate pattern
Allow for the left hand underlap at closure point
remeber to reverse your plate patterns below and above the waist.
If you are patient, and pay attention to the small details, you will have success. If you slap it together, lord only nows the result.
It isn't an impossible task, just a very tedious one with lots of repetative work, requiring attention to small details to make it work right.
As we start nailing plates in, I'll provide some photographs. Sinric will be tinning my front plates shortly (he won't let me play with the molten tin!)
Next step is nailing together the front.------------------
Bob R.
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Sebastian K
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- Location: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Thank you for the help everybody,
anybody ever do something like this for a person with a big tummy? I am asking because I have one and was wondering if that affect construction in any way.
Any pictures of a work in progress will be appreciated too.
Thanks again, especially to Chef for his repeated and repeated and repeated patience on the subject
Sebastian
anybody ever do something like this for a person with a big tummy? I am asking because I have one and was wondering if that affect construction in any way.
Any pictures of a work in progress will be appreciated too.
Thanks again, especially to Chef for his repeated and repeated and repeated patience on the subject
Sebastian
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chef de chambre
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Hi Sebastian,
If you are a big gent, then you may want to go for something like the one in Madrid that has in essence a two part globose breastplate, using 'false' nails on these overlarge lung plates to give the garment a fashionable pattern.
The garment in question is a brigandine, with brigandine work peplum , sides and back, but with that split breastplate covering down to the navel/waist.
This would save you some work with less plates to nail (although you will have the false nails anyhow), but it will even give a big gent a 'waist' wheras if he tried for more and smaller plates it would end up looking like a tube at best.
We have a couple of beefier gents in the company who are opting for these.
------------------
Bob R.
If you are a big gent, then you may want to go for something like the one in Madrid that has in essence a two part globose breastplate, using 'false' nails on these overlarge lung plates to give the garment a fashionable pattern.
The garment in question is a brigandine, with brigandine work peplum , sides and back, but with that split breastplate covering down to the navel/waist.
This would save you some work with less plates to nail (although you will have the false nails anyhow), but it will even give a big gent a 'waist' wheras if he tried for more and smaller plates it would end up looking like a tube at best.
We have a couple of beefier gents in the company who are opting for these.
------------------
Bob R.
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wcallen
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Just to keep the brigandine thread alive and show people one they probably haven't seen....
I found a picture of a brig claimed to be c. 1500 in a private collection (no, not mine, I don't have that kind of money). I have inside shots of the front and back, and outside of the front. It seems to be a reasonable one....
This is the inside of the front:
<img src=http://allenantiques.com/misc/brig_front_inside.jpg>
If it works, and anyone cares, I will add the others.
Here are the others....
The outside of the front - with some obvious patches....
<img src=http://allenantiques.com/misc/brig_front_outside.jpg>
The inside of the back.
<img src=http://allenantiques.com/misc/Brig_back.jpg>
Lots and lots of plates. As Chef always says, not only are there a lot of them, they are different too.....
Wade
[This message has been edited by wcallen (edited 04-11-2002).]
I found a picture of a brig claimed to be c. 1500 in a private collection (no, not mine, I don't have that kind of money). I have inside shots of the front and back, and outside of the front. It seems to be a reasonable one....
This is the inside of the front:
<img src=http://allenantiques.com/misc/brig_front_inside.jpg>
If it works, and anyone cares, I will add the others.
Here are the others....
The outside of the front - with some obvious patches....
<img src=http://allenantiques.com/misc/brig_front_outside.jpg>
The inside of the back.
<img src=http://allenantiques.com/misc/Brig_back.jpg>
Lots and lots of plates. As Chef always says, not only are there a lot of them, they are different too.....
Wade
[This message has been edited by wcallen (edited 04-11-2002).]
Well, I've posted this before, but here's another brig (warning - large photos):
http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/leedsbrig.htm
------------------
Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak
http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/
http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/leedsbrig.htm
------------------
Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak
http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/
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Asbjorn Johansen
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wcallen
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The only ones to which I have immediate access are too rusty to get a reasonable idea of what they really looked like originally (at least in their current condition).
Most people have been playing in the range of 18-20g, and that seems reasonable from what I have seen.
Chef, did you get measurements off of the Higgins plates?
Wade
Most people have been playing in the range of 18-20g, and that seems reasonable from what I have seen.
Chef, did you get measurements off of the Higgins plates?
Wade