Mounting an aventail/camail to a bascinet

jgalak · Post by **jgalak** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 10:17 pm

I know that the correct way to mount an aventail to a bascinet is to sew it to a leather strip and then use vervelles to mount the strip to the helm. However, my lady (who wants a bascinet) really doesn't like the way the leather strip looks. She finds that the strip of leather takes away from the "shiny steel" look of the helm and aventail.

So I was wondering if anyone knows of any other period mounting techniques, ones that don't include leather (note: she doesn't like the colored leather look either, it's the first idea I had).

Thanks,

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Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak
http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/

cristofre fortescu · Post by **cristofre fortescu** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 11:19 pm

It may or may not be period, but the first one I attached was on a leather strip mounted on the inside edge of the helm with rivets. It can be lined up so that the first row of links are aligned with the edge of the helm showing no leather. Looks almost like you are wearing a coif if done right.

C F

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Wed May 01, 2002 2:02 am

Please excuse the slight bit of "flammage" here.

Show her an armour book. Point to all the bascinets. Say "This is how they did it."

Then tell her to get over it and do it.

Then run for the hills.

Effingham

twoswords · Post by **twoswords** » Wed May 01, 2002 2:26 am

I have done a bit of this avaintail attaching business, and one of the main things (IMO) is to find a good piece of lether whose color "matches" the helm when considering the helmshape and everything. I know it sounds a bit ridiculous, but itÂ´s very true. A good thing to do is also to see if you can match that color with all the other straps appearing on the armor. It makes a big difference.

My suggestion: Tell your Lady that this is how they did it. I have also seen a single picture with the method of fastening the avaintail on the inside of the helmet, but I have seen sooo many more with it fastened on the outside.

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Wed May 01, 2002 12:45 pm

What weight leather do you guys use to attach your aventail?

Flonzy

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Cheap garb is as bad as plastic armor.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Thu May 02, 2002 1:06 am

Six to seven ounce for the structural strap. You can cover the strap and the vervelles too, if you like, with something decorative, like garment leather cut in tiny dags, or light vegetable-tanned tooled Ã la Gothique (panels, florals, and foliation).

Unless you have remarkably tall vervelles, 9-oz belt-weight leather might be a bit much, and break up a smooth outline on your bascinet.

--Kostya, who has an oak-leaf-dagged three colored decorative cover for his camail strap and will install it SOMEDAY...

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"The Minstrel Boy to the war is gone..."

Amalric Unomen · Post by **Amalric Unomen** » Thu May 02, 2002 3:48 am

If her harness was early, she would wear a coif under the bascinet. So perhaps you could rivet the mail to the inside and it would look like a coif.

Erik Schmidt · Post by **Erik Schmidt** » Thu May 02, 2002 4:29 am

It is period for all the time bascinets were worn to wear a coif under the helm instead of attaching an aventail, although you will find it was limited mostly to Italian soldiers by the later part of the 14th century, and by then the bascinets had developed destinctive looks different from those used over much of the rest of Europe.
It all depends on what date and area she is aiming for.

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Thu May 02, 2002 2:17 pm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">If her harness was early, she would wear a coif under the bascinet. So perhaps you could rivet the mail to the inside and it would look like a coif.</font>

Yeah, but then you have an ugly line of rivet heads rimming the bascinet. I'd rather have the leather band, which is authentic...

Effingham

jgalak · Post by **jgalak** » Thu May 02, 2002 2:25 pm

I can think of at least two ways to deal with the rivets - use countersunk rivets and polish them into the plate, or weld attachment points to the inside of the helm.

Were bascinets ever worn without an aventail or coif? How about with somethign like a maille standard?

Thanks,

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Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak
http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/

Armour Guy · Post by **Armour Guy** » Thu May 02, 2002 10:23 pm

Here's an all-metal idea, which will require tremendously more upkeep:

Attach vervelles as usual, and run a piece of thick wire or thin rod through them, and have that same rod run through the top row of links (which would probably have to be doubled up). It'll stay relatively well, hold OK, and satisfy the look she's after.

Although I'm still all for showing her a book.