needing authentic helmet ideas

Dale Beatty · Post by **Dale Beatty** » Mon May 06, 2002 9:31 pm

Hi, I'm looking for an authentic helmet between 1200 and 1300 that would be acceptable to sca style combat and I'm not too keen on the flat top great helm. I'm looking for something more period then bargrill as well. Anyone got ideas? thanks all!

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I never choose lover or fighter, it eliminates options

[This message has been edited by Dale Beatty (edited 05-06-2002).]

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Mon May 06, 2002 9:43 pm

Wouldn't a round top "pembridge" type helm work for that period... or perhaps a sugarloaf greathelm? Both period styles, both eyeslot type helms and I think both fall into the period you're looking at.

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon May 06, 2002 9:44 pm

hmmm... Most of the helms from this time are either open faced and/or flat topped. Other options that I can think of are at the end of that time period. These include the "not quite flat topped" great helm and the sugarloaf.

check out this thread and the links here: http://www.armourarchive.org/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001164.html

(edit so you can just click on the link)

[This message has been edited by Jacob (edited 05-06-2002).]

Dale Beatty · Post by **Dale Beatty** » Mon May 06, 2002 9:51 pm

well...i really like that visored helm off sinrics page but from the posts most people don't seem to agree its period...what are some good resources I can check? Thanks for the help.

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I never choose lover or fighter, it eliminates options

SyrRhys · Post by **SyrRhys** » Mon May 06, 2002 10:03 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dale Beatty:
well...i really like that visored helm off sinrics page but from the posts most people don't seem to agree its period...what are some good resources I can check? Thanks for the help.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you like the sugarloaf then by all means go ahead; it's not accurate for the period that person was asking about, but it is *certainly* accurate for the period you're describing.

By the way, whomever mentioned the Pembridge helm, that dates from a much later period; that helmet is from c. 1375.

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

Dale Beatty · Post by **Dale Beatty** » Mon May 06, 2002 10:16 pm

excelent! Thankyou. no obviously chain hauberks were in use at the time...what kind of plate, if any was in use...I plan on making this stuff my self eventually and i figured my own kit would be a good place to start armouring. Obviously some of these things are going to be way too advanced for me but hopefully Pheylin will respond to my e-mails soon

. Thanks again everyone!

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I never choose lover or fighter, it eliminates options

Gaston de Clermont · Post by **Gaston de Clermont** » Tue May 07, 2002 12:59 pm

They started wearing leather reinforcement under maile some where around the second half of the 13th century. It's hard to doccument exactly when because it's generally not visible. Some bits of iron and latten plate were worn though what the configurations were like is unclear. Coats of plate started to emerge in the last quarter of the 13th century. Many armour books (Edge and Paddock, Claude Blair etc) site the sleeping guard statue as some of the earliest evidence of coats of plate, and date it to around 1290. He's got rectangular plates that on a full sized guy might scale up to maybe 3 inches wide by 5 inches tall (I'm guessing, since he's a little statue, and I've only seen him in pictures). While a flat topped helm or kettle hat would be more likely with his rig, sugar loafs are contemporary.
Gaston de Clermont

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Tue May 07, 2002 1:26 pm

Ok, if everyone could please follow the blinking floor lights that lead out of the box...

Dale, don't settle for medieval English or French unless you want to. There are plenty of other helm styles you can go with, if you're open to other cultures of that era.

Case in point: the most advanced civilizations in the world at that point where all in the middle east. (With the possible exception of China.) This doesn't mean you have to be an Arab, though... at that point Byzantium was crumbling, but still had a large number of citizens. And they had cool kits, too.

If you are intent on doing medieval European, and especially if you're going to make it yourself, I'd suggest that you look into a rather simple helm that NOBODY wears (ok, I've seen a couple): a Kettle Hat. They were very popular at that time. Unfortunately, you'd have to go with a bargrill.

HELMUT

Dale Beatty · Post by **Dale Beatty** » Tue May 07, 2002 1:56 pm

I have to admit it. I have seen a bargrilled kettle helm. I liked it. I know the bargrills piss some people off but it was at the very least relatively unique. I can't remember where i saw it. If someone could point me in the right direction or better yet set me up with a pattern I'd be really appreciative. Thanks for all the replys folks!

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I never choose lover or fighter, it eliminates options

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue May 07, 2002 3:07 pm

Helmut,

He started this same thread on the R&A board and specified 13th century Scottish. Other people may have seen that version, too. It's harder to keep track when the same conversation is going on in two places.

Check out the armour of St. Maurice for some other early plate armour (late 13th c)

Hammered Wombat · Post by **Hammered Wombat** » Tue May 07, 2002 3:46 pm

There are a variety of "Sugarloaf" style helms depicted ca. 1275. Naturally, I don't have any references handy...

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Steve Belden
The Hammered Wombat
armourer@hammeredwombat.com