how to make those wonderful elbows......

Wolf · Post by **Wolf** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:29 am

you know the ones i mean the wrap kind that cover the crease on teh inside of the arm. usually found on 1450s+ arms that either tie to an arming point or to the rerebrace and vambracer. any ideas how to make em? patterns......plans, helpful insights before i start a pair? btw i dont have a welder.is this gonna hurt me? hehe

Pheylin Quinn · Post by **Pheylin Quinn** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:18 am

Darius Architectus had an webpage showing how he made his without welding. Not sure what the URL as, tho. Or the specific suit that they were from.

Galon · Post by **Galon** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:24 am

did you check the pattern archive?

Geez, I didnt set that damn thing up to not have every pattern I could get into it...

I know it is there, I put it here...

Gordon the Grey · Post by **Gordon the Grey** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:28 am

Check the Pattern Archive ,, Gothic Elbows there is not welding involed for this pattern

Pheylin Quinn · Post by **Pheylin Quinn** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:42 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Galon:
did you check the pattern archive?

Geez, I didnt set that damn thing up to not have every pattern I could get into it...

I know it is there, I put it here...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pattern archive? What pattern archive.....we have a pattern archive? Wow, go figure!

Ideval · Post by **Ideval** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:07 am

I just started a pair yesterday.
They are simple compared to the style linked from the pattern Archive, but they cover the inside of the elbow.

Basically, I drew a regular cop pattern, and extended the "fan side" by four or five inches....haven't been out to the garage yet....so that one side of the pattern looks like an arrow-head. The extended portion has also a 3/4 inch "lip," which will be flared forward (producing the - V - crease in the elbow) once the cop has been curled.

I am using 14 gauge mild steel because of the depth required of the elbow. Once you have dished (sunk) the cop, mark the center-point, set the cop over a dishing hole (bowl), hold a ball-pien on the center-point, and strike lightly and evenly with a mallet (on the flat-face of the ball-pien). Even with 14g, the cop will begin to "point" or peak immediately.

I then took this to my anvil, and smoothed the transition. Now, I am thinking of a way to make a useable "cone" to raise the cop to the final depth or height.

IdÃ«val

wcallen · Post by **wcallen** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:18 am

Since we are talking about the md-late 15th c. german cops of this type (and not the mid 16th c. ones), making them without a welder and without significant dishing is not only possible, it is correct.

The cheapish ones I have seen have seen have a seam down the back. The seam is riveted.

One of the really good ones (I think it was Maximillian's, but I don't remeber for sure) has a triangular piece added into the back to close up the seam.

We have made several pair with no hot work and no welding - they get very pointy.

The (very simple) pair I did on my kid's costume only had a little heat - I heated it to clean up the point (moving around 1/2 scale armour in spring steel was a little too much trouble right there without the heat).

The pattern for these elbows is a sort of a really chunky 'Y' shape. The outer edges of the top part curve out and then sweep into the bottom part in a gentle 'S' curve. The fork of the 'Y' is very broad - maybe 120 degrees (from memory). That includes a piece for the overlap.

This is actually a good piece to make. The dishing is not extreme, you have to move the metal in odd ways, you get to do a lot of flairing, and you can end up with a really cool piece without all that much work.

Wade

Wolf · Post by **Wolf** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:18 pm

ya ya i found it right after i posted. 1 BIg problem though is that it doesnt print out very well if at all really.

wade, ideval: if you get a chance could u post a pattern that would print off?

Post by JT » Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:42 pm

Well, since Galon already grumbled, I suppose I won't.

But sheesh!!!! Are there still people unaware that there's a Pattern Archive on the Archive?

-- jt --

wcallen · Post by **wcallen** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:01 pm

This is a simple gothic elbow - but you can work from here.

The squares are 1" squares.Simple Gothic Elbow pattern

It was used to make the full sized version of these elbows.

[This message has been edited by wcallen (edited 06-03-2002).]