Neck/Throat Armor: The Maille "Standard"

[Tim Finkas]

I am familiar with the term "Standard" as it applies to a piece of throat/neck armour principally composed of maille. My recollection is that these were used approx. 14th c. through late 16th c.

Have any of you constructed such "Standards" for use in SCA combat? Please describe your method. Is the linking pattern more dense than for a halberk? Can such an item be made to fit SCA safety requirements?

Steve of Forth: do you make these, or have you considered them (out of riveted)?

Thanks,
Tim

[Gaston de Clermont]

There are some good pictures of something I'd call a standard in "Shiny Shapes". Parts of it are so tightly linked that the rivets prevent the rings from rotating. So if a link had its rivet at 3 o'clock back when it was made 500 years ago, it's still at 3 o'clock. The lower parts below the collar bones and near the shoulders is a looser weave like regular maile.
Gaston

[Konstantin the Red]

While a mail standard won't do as rigid protection for the throat, it's a good historical piece to go with your Landsknecht outfit, whenever you may wish to get that, er, sartorially overwhelming.

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"The Minstrel Boy to the war is gone..."

[Tim Finkas]

Konstantin:

Are you thinking of a maille "mantle"? That's the maille shoulder cape seen in depictions of landsknechts. A "standard" is a different article. From what I can remember reading, it covers little more than the neck & throat, not the shoulders as well.

[This message has been edited by Tim Finkas (edited 06-14-2002).]

[Konstantin the Red]

Yes, that I am. As a coverup for a hard gorget, it would suit. By itself, it's not going to shield your hyoid bones as well as we want.

[Tim Finkas]

What I am envisioning is a hard leather gorget (cuir bolli)with a band of riveted maille affixed to the outside. Since a hard leather gorget is legal alone (as well as I understand the min. armour req.'s), this configuration should be SCA legal. However, I am wondering how close such an assemblage would come to the construction of an authentic "period" maille "standard."

[JJ Shred]

It would seem like hardened leather was holding the shape of them in pictures, as maille wouldn't stand alone. But I've never actually handled one. From the pictures I've seen though, the links are smaller on the collar as it raises, One example having three different ring sizes.

[Greyholt]

Wow, I only just saw this thread now. I had just been posting about this same thing on Darkman's ' Fitzherbert Effigy Revisited' thread.

I happen to be in the process of making one to go with my sallet. I'm slowly putting together what will be a fair representation of a Wars of the Roses Harness. Being that this is for SCA combat, it's more difficult to construct because the neck protection must be rigid.
My bevor is attached to the sallet, which is more practical for SCA, but presents its own problems, one being the slight chance that a weapon point might get up between the bevor and the breastplate. Otherwise I wouldn’t worry as much about the front being rigid.

At the moment, I'm experimenting with a mail-covered plastic (God forbid! :eek 'gorget'. Don't worry; I intend to get rid of this thing as soon as possible! What I've discovered however is that there's very little room between the bevor and my neck, so rigid leather under mail would be too thick.
My friend was able to use hard leather under his, as his helm is an open-faced celata and has no bevor He created a standard by taking a ‘dog collar’ shaped piece of sole leather and attaching mail to it. He simply punched little holes in one edge of the leather and wove the neck opening of the mail to it and then turned it inside out. Thus, he ended up with a standing mail collar. You really can’t see the leather because the mail is rolled over the top, forming the edge.

It seems that I shall end up making mine out of 20g stainless, being that it’s much thinner, and then attaching the mail to the top edge via a soft leather strip (perhaps padded) riveted to the inside of the steel and rolling over the top. This should result in a look similar to what the effigies are wearing.

That being said, I guess I can’t really tell you about the original construction, other than to say I believe the density of the weave allows the mail to support itself and the roll at the top could be the edge of a padded leather or cloth liner.
Chef posted a reply discussing this on the ‘Effigy Revisited’ thread. Here’s the link: http://www.armourarchive.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/007454.html


Here’s a pic of a standard from the AaoMK, you can see the different weave densities:

[img]http://mywebpage.netscape.com/TKekona/images/AAoMK+Standard.jpg[/img]

I hope any of this helps…

…………Greyholt


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"Brace yourself Captain; the area of penetration will no doubt be sensitive.".........Mr. Spock.

[losthelm]

a 1/4 inch Id with 14 guage wire might to it with a padded coif underneath but also a dubble weave or maybe a dragons weave may also work. but if you go this way make shure you have a heavey padding in the coif in that area. maybe even some splints

[Tim Finkas]

Let's add the factor that I ultimately desire RIVETED maille, not butted! However, for the present, I have a strip of welded stainless (somewhere) left over from my Knut aventail. It may suffice for some sort of approximation of a maille standard.

Thanks for the scan, I had overlooked that image in AAAOTMK. I hadn't remembered there was so much of a "cape" to the standard, so my strip of mail may not be as perfect as I had hoped.

As for using plastic to support a standard, my suggestion is to sandwich a layer of HDPE between 2 layers of leather. That's what I did for my leather demi-gaunts. Excellent appearance with extra safety.

[knuut]

Once you have setteled on a design, drop me an e-mail and I'l give you a quote on doing it in welded.