The Armour Archive

Hey all,

I had planned to return to fighting in the fall, giving me several months to acquire the money to put together a nice period looking kit. But there is a pas d'armes in June that for some very personal reasons I want to fight in which means I need to get armored much sooner.

What do you all think would be my fastest and/or least expensive option? I could assemble a coat of plates for the body, get some leather and some cheap knees and elbows from Stonekeep. I have a Pembridge on order with Beathan, hopefully it will arrive in time to pad, strap and get accustomed to. I'm also working with a nice lady to get a jupon together in time as well.

However I was wondering what you all would think of something like this
http://www.revival.us/index.asp?PageAct ... ProdID=266 under a jupon. What I like is that it includes arm and shoulder protection in one package with torso protection. I don't know if it meets SCA requirements for rigid protection although it looks like the plastic is in the right places. It would always be covered by a period garment such as a jupon. I could add a pair of knees and maybe make some cuisses covered in fabric, put together a quick and dirty gorget, make or buy some gaunts and hopefully I'd be set for a while.

Any advice or suggestions are welcome.

Regards,

audax

The Rockgardn Flak Vest covers pretty much the same for the torso, and is supposed to have an integral kidney belt. It's very low-profile, and goes for about 55 bucks.

The Roach (or RaceFace-- they bought Roach some time back, apparantly) Rally FR knee/shin guards and elbow/forearm guards are also very low-profile, and have SCA "rigid protection" plastic over the correct spots for knees and elbows. The leg protection goes for about 65 bucks, the arms for about 40.

All this stuff is commercially produced gear for insane mountain-bikers, who (I gather this from reading the reviews on the products written by those who wear it for its intended purpose) routinely miss curves in the trail and fall off 8-foot embankments onto rocks, or have knees, elbows and arms slam at high speed into passing rocks and trees. They all swear to its lightness, flexibility and protective qualities. If you look on line for Rockgardn and Roach dealers in your city, you can go and buy it right away.

If you add simple plastic cuisses to the above, and see if someone can loan you a good helm and an arming coat or similar sleeved garment, you should be able to armor cheaply and quickly to fight in your pas.

You are obviously in an exigent circumstance, so I won't broach the issue of the appropriateness (or inappropriateness) of wearing plastic sport-armor to a passage of arms....

Michael

PM sent

I've never seen one in person, but Brian Price, they guy who's selling it, is an SCA knight, and would be able to honostly tell you if it is actually legal for SCA combat. I can guarantee he would not sell it to you for SCA combat if it would not be safe for such.

audax wrote:Hey all,

However I was wondering what you all would think of something like this
http://www.revival.us/index.asp?PageAct ... ProdID=266 under a jupon. What I like is that it includes arm and shoulder protection in one package with torso protection. I don't know if it meets SCA requirements for rigid protection although it looks like the plastic is in the right places.

Any advice or suggestions are welcome.

Regards,

audax

"You are obviously in an exigent circumstance, so I won't broach the issue of the appropriateness (or inappropriateness) of wearing plastic sport-armor to a passage of arms.... "

Heh, I hear you and I feel very much the same way. I just really want to fight in this pas. My time frame and budget are tight, plus it's the end of the semester so I'm kind of up against the wall. maybe with a bit of luck and fast work I could make all my armor and not have to resort to plastic. Maybe miracles happen.

Heck maybe I should buy a side of armor weight leather and make medieval "plastic". So many decisions, so little time.

audax

audax wrote:"You are obviously in an exigent circumstance, so I won't broach the issue of the appropriateness (or inappropriateness) of wearing plastic sport-armor to a passage of arms.... "

Heh, I hear you and I feel very much the same way. I just really want to fight in this pas. My time frame and budget are tight, plus it's the end of the semester so I'm kind of up against the wall. maybe with a bit of luck and fast work I could make all my armor and not have to resort to plastic. Maybe miracles happen.

Heck maybe I should buy a side of armor weight leather and make medieval "plastic". So many decisions, so little time.

audax

Stupid question but can you BORROW armor for the day? Something time period coheasive and appropriate? preferably from someone about your own size?

A better choice then spending money you don't have to do a job quick and wrong that you plan on redoing anyway.

Sean

Spend the time & do it right the first time. Even if you spend all your spare time on it now & stay up late. You'll regret it less later. You say you have the stuff for your CoP. Assembling that will take longer than assmbling some leather cuisses with pre-fab knees. Spend your dough on making your permenant stuff look better.

If those elbow cops cover the three points of the elbow (and are "hard") I would say it looks legal.

Darth Vader, but legal.

Aeth
Marshally sort

Eorl Giles' kit can also serve for a later period, i.e. under a jupon or similar:

pictures of the kit

The steel cops can easily be gotten from Vulcan's Forge (and won't cost that much), and with dedication you should be able to get something like the hidden plastic protection done in a weekend. Which should leave you with enough time to cover it up in a nice jupon and heraldic surcot.

Good luck!

William

william wrote:Eorl Giles' kit can also serve for a later period, i.e. under a jupon or similar:

pictures of the kit

The steel cops can easily be gotten from Vulcan's Forge (and won't cost that much), and with dedication you should be able to get something like the hidden plastic protection done in a weekend. Which should leave you with enough time to cover it up in a nice jupon and heraldic surcot.

Good luck!

William

I'm totally impressed. That's pretty clever stuff. Rubbermaid plastic, eh?

Target, here I come.

audax

Be sure to cover your kidneys better than the guy in that picture...

Id have to agree with Sean, why dont you check around for a loaner set and exhaust those options.
I wont even wear anything with a bargrill to a Pas de Arms. Its about the pageantry.

Sorry to just jump into the post, but my name came back on a search and I see you were going to get my knees and elbows.
I dont mind losing the sale and pushing you towards loaning a really nice looking set of armor to wear to this thing. Pas are for the people who are very anal about armor appearance, and its their one time they get their way.
My opinion is dont just walk out there in something because you want to fight, there are plenty of other tournaments you can fight in. I know a lot of fighters with legal SCA kits who fight in almost every tournament available, but do not fight in Pas de Arms out of respect. At the last pas I fought in, there were fewer fighters on the field as there were ringing it watching. Im a strong proponent of getting people on the field to fight, but a pas de arms is different. I would exhaust all avenues of loaning an appropriate kit matching the type of tournament, like Sean suggested. Respect what the people putting on the tournament and the ones fighting in it are trying to accomplish. Of course what is considered appropriate will vary regionally. I would check around, maybe ask the autocrat, who might direct you to the person over the heavy lists , who can then tell you what he expects to see on the field. (both phone numbers are posted Im sure.. ring them up).. Its respectful and will probably be appreciated.

Sorry didnt mean to get on a soapbox, and Im sure there's tons of people who would totally disagree with me, but there's also people out there that would send you to a black tie function in tennis shoes. My suggestion would be contact the person over the heavy lists and have a 5 minute conversation with him before doing anything.

Stonekeep wrote:Id have to agree with Sean, why dont you check around for a loaner set and exhaust those options.
I wont even wear anything with a bargrill to a Pas de Arms. Its about the pageantry.

Sorry to just jump into the post, but my name came back on a search and I see you were going to get my knees and elbows.
I dont mind losing the sale and pushing you towards loaning a really nice looking set of armor to wear to this thing. Pas are for the people who are very anal about armor appearance, and its their one time they get their way.
My opinion is dont just walk out there in something because you want to fight, there are plenty of other tournaments you can fight in. I know a lot of fighters with legal SCA kits who fight in almost every tournament available, but do not fight in Pas de Arms out of respect. At the last pas I fought in, there were fewer fighters on the field as there were ringing it watching. Im a strong proponent of getting people on the field to fight, but a pas de arms is different. I would exhaust all avenues of loaning an appropriate kit matching the type of tournament, like Sean suggested. Respect what the people putting on the tournament and the ones fighting in it are trying to accomplish. Of course what is considered appropriate will vary regionally. I would check around, maybe ask the autocrat, who might direct you to the person over the heavy lists , who can then tell you what he expects to see on the field. (both phone numbers are posted Im sure.. ring them up).. Its respectful and will probably be appreciated.

Sorry didnt mean to get on a soapbox, and Im sure there's tons of people who would totally disagree with me, but there's also people out there that would send you to a black tie function in tennis shoes. My suggestion would be contact the person over the heavy lists and have a 5 minute conversation with him before doing anything.

Hi Mike,

I've done some thinking and I think I could get on the field in good style if I just buy an armor hide and make some hardened leather armor. It just means I have to work fast and furious for a month and a half. I think I can make it all myself except for the helm (a Pembridge on order with Beathan). I'm not a fan of bargrills to be honest and passed on a lot of other helmets to go with the Pemby. I can make some splinted cuisses, with a bit of nice cloth and some steel barstock, lamellar from the leathercovered with the jupon or surcote, some bazubands and gauntlets. It 'll be period materials and It'll look good or i won't even get on the field.

I'm not a sports fanatic, I really prefer authenticity. I was just a little panicky with the shortened time frame.

I'll post picture when i get it all done and ya'll can tell me whether it sucks or not.

My thanks and regards,

audax

audax wrote: I'm not a fan of bargrills to be honest and passed on a lot of other helmets to go with the Pemby.
audax

you and me both! Look like football helmets to me...
I really never wanted to make any but people ask for them and you have to make what people want to wear...

If you decide to get a hide and make your gear out of that, then three pieces of advice:

For getting it made (or making mistakes) as quickly as possible, buy a leather cutting blade for your jigsaw. No jigsaw? Get a cheap one.

Second: Leather is not steel. Do not attempt to make leather armor using patterns for steel armor. Lames and articulations are for steel or other truly rigid material, not leather.

If you haven't made stuff out of leather before, take the time to visit your local library for books on leather construction. A quick glance through them for techniques will give you many "Oh, yeah I never would have thought of that, but that's the way to do it" moments.

Al Stohlman's books on making leather luggage and cases are very useful for leather armor techniques, and are available at Tandy Leather stores.

Corby de la Flamme wrote:If you decide to get a hide and make your gear out of that, then three pieces of advice:

For getting it made (or making mistakes) as quickly as possible, buy a leather cutting blade for your jigsaw. No jigsaw? Get a cheap one.

Second: Leather is not steel. Do not attempt to make leather armor using patterns for steel armor. Lames and articulations are for steel or other truly rigid material, not leather.

If you haven't made stuff out of leather before, take the time to visit your local library for books on leather construction. A quick glance through them for techniques will give you many "Oh, yeah I never would have thought of that, but that's the way to do it" moments.

Al Stohlman's books on making leather luggage and cases are very useful for leather armor techniques, and are available at Tandy Leather stores.

Sir Corby,

Many thanks for the good advice. I don't plan on using any articulations for my armor. I'm getting some soupcan knees from Mad Matt, a helm from Beathan and a gorget from Andrew. What I will make are some bazubands, a lamellar cuirass and greaves, all of hardened leather. An aluminum mail coif and a jupon or surcote to top it off and I think it'll look good and be mostly period materials.

I did have a question for you: what about hardened leather gauntlets? Are those soemthing you think work well in leather or should I go for a steel pair instead? If I do make them I'll be using Sir al Hadi al Hadad's pattern from the Bladeturner archive.

BTW, your kit is one of my favorites and an inspiration for me. I love the crusader pothelms.

Regards,

audax