SCA mail?

jmattheweiler · Post by **jmattheweiler** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:37 pm

Where to people stand on the use of mail shirts, hauberks or other large pieces mail (skirts or ... gasp... chausses) as part of an SCA fighting harness? It has little practical use and can make up close to half the weight of a full set of armor, but it is far more authentic (and cool looking) than the pickle barrels and hockey pads you should wear. Anyone here use such gear in the lists? Why or why not?

Oh yes, I know one probably should wear only rivetted mail in SCA combat, but I've seen people in butted mail (presumably because it is effectively 'decorative' and they want to save money). Where do you stand on the use of butted mail in the lists?

Benedek · Post by **Benedek** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:08 pm

personally.....i love fighting in mail....something about it just feels "authentic" and it's not too bad when it comes to weight. i wear a shirt that is 25 lbs. and i reallly don't notice it at all. it is rivetted mail but eventually i'm going to upgrade to flat ring wedge rivetted. i use a hidden pickle bucket kidney belt (temporarily). i'm working on a an outer later period kidney belt for a mail and plates look. i use hidden knees and some bazubands that i made (very ugly but effective). to me mail is easier to fight in than say llamelar, or leather body bracelets......just my two cents.

RedHandArmoury · Post by **RedHandArmoury** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:13 pm

I also fight in mail, but not a full shirt. I fake it. I fight in a pickle barrel coat of plates and I wanted to give the appearence of mail underniegth it. I actually have a pair of mail sleeves that tie onto my arms and a belt with mail hanging down to my knees. This gives the apperence of a a half sleeve hauberk under the coat of plates. Its lighter, and it took alot less time to make. The stuff on my arms doesn't offer much protection from hits, but the curtains of mail hanging from the belt help absorb the impact of those nasty leg shots. Along with that I have the bottom half of a coif. Basically it protects my neck and is attached to a hood so it doesn't interfear with my helmet. I wear a crappy steel gorget under this. As far as rivetted or butted, I use butted mail made of 12.5 gauge aluminium wire in 3/8 inch ID rings. These things can take a beating and I've never had ay problems with them. Basically, mail doesn't offer much protection compared to plate, and considering how much time it takes to make, for most its easier to use plate armour. Alot of fighters don't use it because it offers so little protection, you might as well just go without and save the weight. The less you weigh, the faster you move, the faster you can kill your oppenent before they hit you. If you can beat them first and never get hit, whats the point of having armour anyway? Personally, I would love to see more mail in SCA. IThere's just not enough.

jmattheweiler · Post by **jmattheweiler** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:15 pm

I'm also in the 'pro mail' camp; the weight just doesn't feel like an issue if your whole suit of armor is well fitted and strapped. However, I have to admit to using butted mailÃ¢â‚¬â€

audax · Post by **audax** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:01 pm

Do a search on the Archive. Wearing mail for SCA combat has been discussed several times and the general consensus seems to be, if you like it, go for it. Make sure you protect the tender bits.

Regards,

audax

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:22 am

Mail chausses per se don't work very well when what you're armoring against is being hit hard with sticks -- the hauberk wearer might as well go with gamboised cuisses (with dependent hard knees, attached in period manners) and get actual protection at lighter weight.

Mail faulds and hauberk skirts are two of the most useful mail bits. These are more or less the same genre of protective armor, draping over the thighs and sometimes hanging fairly free of them, thus providing a massive curtain that damps the energy of incoming shots. Some hauberk wearers use a hip-flip when defending against a blow to the leg to momentarily put some inches of air between hauberk and limb. Works if you time it well.

In the SCA game, a mail shirt doesn't have a lot of effect tactically. Whether you wear one or not becomes essentially a matter of taste.

A camail is rather smaller than the kind of mail area you were looking to discuss, but it is very protective and allows full freedom of movement to the neck, and that ain't hay.

Butted mail's been adequate to the task for the SCA for about forty years -- I have no idea what Year A.S. the first SCAdian mailshirt was fielded -- and I daresay it will be around as long as we have SCAdians on budgets. Riveted mail of any kind will increase its popularity because SCAdians are no dummies, and are just as happy to get mail that is half the weight of butted as anybody else. Yeah, it's more rattan-proof than butted, and nobody dislikes that part either.

Mac Thamhais · Post by **Mac Thamhais** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:16 pm

What of the newer rivetted aluminum stuff? if butted alum has held up well as one previous poster said, then the rivetted stuff should hold up even better, for about a third the weight of steel. Is this practical?