The Armour Archive

I got fed up with my own inability to get even rolls when drawing a line on top of the metal then trying to accurately position that line over the edge of my anvil. I dont get huge variation, just enough that I'm not happy with the end result.
My tip (that seems to work for me) is to draw a line on my anvil instead. The line remains visible as I move the work around, and my edge rolls are more even.

Practice practice practice that’s how I got it when you think you done all you can that when you just get started.

Eric

SHHHH!!!!!!

You're not supposed to let secrets like that out!

I've not done it for an edge roll, but have used it to initiate a flare on some knees.

Guide lines are always good. Put them where they help you most.

Ok, Maybe I'm missing something very obvious, but I'm having trouble envisioning how a line drawn on the anvil would help make the roll more even.

What I am used to seeing demonstarted is drawing a line on the piece where the fold is to begin, and lining that up with the edge of the anvil for beginning the fold.

I guess I'm just not understanding where on the anvil you draw the line, and what you line it up with that helps make an even roll.

Can someone help explain ths to me? Or maybe a picture to show it?

Thank you
Kindyr

Kindr,

When you put the piece on the anvil, how do you know where the edge of the anvil is? If you line the edge of your piece up with the line on the anvil then you know the edge of the anvil is where the line you put on your piece is. Then you just strike slightly forward of the line on your piece. Or, you can be like Dube or Thaden and just feel where the anvil is through the metal and by the sound it makes

Never would have thought of that ( line on the anvil), great tip. THANKS

Hey,

you should try it by using grip-pliers to make the initial bend....

Here, let me show you. (just do not try to make the 90 degree bend at once, do it in a several passes, about 10 degrees at a time or so..., do it cm. by cm. (or inch by inch))

(sorry, the pics are not shown in the correct order...)

So, what do people do for the rolled edged on a buckler? I've been back and forth with a 13" disk of 19 ga. stainless, first getting the edge bent up about 80-90 degrees (got a nice pizza pan so far), then bashing the inner part again with a deadblow hammer on a wide flat stump to make it not-like-a-potato chip, which causes several parts of the rim to pop back out to 60-70 degrees again, which then get beaten back up to 90 degrees, causing the potato chip bend, and so on ad infinitum. I'm talking about some areas on the rim almost an inch off the table when you set it down.

I just can't get it past that 90 degree point without the warping. The steel just won't compress. (No, I can't work it hot, having only a propane plumbing torch to work with.)

If I simply let it slide and continue curling it over to close the roll, will it partly flatten out again on it's own? Or should I just let it warp and try to flatten it after closing the roll?

I may turn it into sort of a shallow "dog dish" buckler, with a "W" cross-section but keeping the umbo rounded. Would that be easier than trying to keep the outer two or three inches flat?

Or should I just make it into a steel cowboy hat? (Think "Oddjobs at the OK Corral".)

Hew,

I would roll the whole thing, then try to beat it flat.

With 19g, you probably could work it hot with just the plumbers torch, if only bit by bit.

Yes- propane- I'm working on a hybrid propane torch.

Listen üp:

Use the propane torch with the big nozzle- the nozzle got air-holes in the back.
Use a compressor and some tubes to get compressed air into the holes....

Now you have a (like another meber here called my plan for such a burner) "FrankenBurner"

Lots of heat from your propane burner....!

I will post pics of my version- cause it works.

mattmaus wrote:I would roll the whole thing, then try to beat it flat.

With 19g, you probably could work it hot with just the plumbers torch, if only bit by bit.

I was trying it by heating to a bright orangey-red about 45 degrees (around the edge) at a time, in an attempt just to anneal it, sorta. By the time I turned the torch off (frugality) and set it aside (safety), it would be cooled off, so it wouldn't be all that hot for hot-working as such. I'm not sure how much that helped.

I think flattening it after the roll is closed might be my best bet, since the lip will then be much narrower.

ie. More like this... o___________o

... than like this: |___________|

I'll probably put a flat block of wood just inside the closed roll and bash it into submission with the deadblow hammer. (That's the fun part.)

Duco de Klonia wrote:Yes- propane- I'm working on a hybrid propane torch.

Listen üp:

Use the propane torch with the big nozzle- the nozzle got air-holes in the back.
Use a compressor and some tubes to get compressed air into the holes....

Now you have a (like another meber here called my plan for such a burner) "FrankenBurner"

Lots of heat from your propane burner....!

I will post pics of my version- cause it works.

Hmm... I do have a small compressor with dryer and regulator, scavenged from a waveguide installation. I know I can get at least 35 psi out of it. I'll look forward to the Frankenburner pics.

Duco de Klonia - do you modify the vice-grips in any way to stop scarring the metal?

Cheers,
Dave.

Uhhh- no.
I'm just careful, but you can try to grind them a bit and/or polish them...
Yes they leave some small scars, but when grinding up the rolled edges a bit with the flapwheel they disappear.

more pics

well, that pic was no good, you cannot see the rolls very well, but take it from me, it works.

Hew wrote:So, what do people do for the rolled edged on a buckler? I've been back and forth with a 13" disk of 19 ga. stainless, first getting the edge bent up about 80-90 degrees (got a nice pizza pan so far), then bashing the inner part again with a deadblow hammer on a wide flat stump to make it not-like-a-potato chip, which causes several parts of the rim to pop back out to 60-70 degrees again, which then get beaten back up to 90 degrees, causing the potato chip bend, and so on ad infinitum. I'm talking about some areas on the rim almost an inch off the table when you set it down.

I just can't get it past that 90 degree point without the warping. The steel just won't compress. (No, I can't work it hot, having only a propane plumbing torch to work with.)

If I simply let it slide and continue curling it over to close the roll, will it partly flatten out again on it's own? Or should I just let it warp and try to flatten it after closing the roll?

I may turn it into sort of a shallow "dog dish" buckler, with a "W" cross-section but keeping the umbo rounded. Would that be easier than trying to keep the outer two or three inches flat?

Or should I just make it into a steel cowboy hat? (Think "Oddjobs at the OK Corral".)

If you are just working cold (and it can be done cold- even triangular rolls) try not to bend the edge too far in each pass.
For example on a buckler:
Instead of aiming at ninety degrees before moving to the next bit, get 45 degrees all the way round and then go round again to ninety and then go round again and again if needed.

(I have a colleague who likes to tell people that half the skill in armouring is being able to see through the metal- of course he can't really but he's so practiced that he knows where he's hitting and what its doing to the steel!)

Jon Terris wrote:If you are just working cold (and it can be done cold- even triangular rolls) try not to bend the edge too far in each pass.
For example on a buckler:
Instead of aiming at ninety degrees before moving to the next bit, get 45 degrees all the way round and then go round again to ninety and then go round again and again if needed.

Quoted again for importance. Hell if you only move it 10 degrees each pass, but keep it all even, you'll be on the right track.

Gradual, steady, and even. (note gradual, and not slow, with tippity tappity itty bitty taps you can make several passes pretty quick, and with practice it goes quicker and quicker)

Even on my ugliest and slopiest rolls I bet it takes me 4-6 passes.

Hey Duco I believed you straight away! I was just curious about the vise-grips and I hate scarring metal - more to clean up later on!

Now I'm still curious about FRANKENBURNER !!! Show us your pics!

I'm finding this post very interesting and informative,
thanks everyone,

Dave.

Another thing you can do is to lay down a strip of tape, even duct tape. It gives you a positive index when the edge of the metal touches the tape. I did this with some thin SS, and laid down a very straight line about 27" long, on the two long edges of a 3.5" wide strip.