Helmet Identification Help

ETC · Post by **ETC** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:35 pm

What is this helmet called? or is it just some helmet. Who would have used it and when? I love this helm. Thanks!!

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:47 pm

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=73176

Adalric the Frank · Post by **Adalric the Frank** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:40 pm

It's a late 12th to early mid 13th century crusader/conical with faceplate interpretation.

Uryen · Post by **Uryen** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:56 pm

ETC Trentonian wrote:What is this helmet called?

He is called James. His friends call him Jimmy the Helm.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:12 pm

Oh yes... Jimmy no Rivets.

We all knew him well.
All and all he was a good helm.

I think Jimmy's dad is on this forum.
Perhaps he could say a few words in his behalf.

Hal

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:36 am

That general type of helm is known to history as a pothelm. General western European, as national/regional types of armor design did not emerge for some two centuries yet, developing in the second or third decade of the fifteenth century.

If its top were paneled and banded it would be an SCA spangen. The pot-helm's heyday was the twelfth century, and it came in numerous forms, from a conical top like this one, to a rounded top like a spangenhelm's silhouette but taller and all one piece, to blowing out the round top into something remarkably like a saucepan inverted on the wearer's head, giving a spaced armor effect, to its stylin' cousin, the saltshaker helm, both angular and boofy-rounded, really working the spaced-armor effect, possibly getting rather heavy to bear up under, as later helmet types in the main don't exercise that principle, perhaps because they preferred to have the same amount of weight distributed down about the lower half of the head. The saltshaker top pot-helm was entirely above the ears.

They were all "pots." They grew faceplates in the twelfth. These were well received, so they evolved nape plates and really reduced brain damage among the aristocracy, can you imagine. Join these additions up -- the hat in your pic doesn't do that -- and you had the 13th-c. barrel helms. A very typical SCA mod to helms of this type is to bridge the gap with a strap riveted in across the bottom to tie front and back together firmly. Pothelms of this kind of layout have very good hearing, which some fighters like very much.

The pot-helmet term got revived a few centuries later, now to mean an infantry soldier's simple, openfaced headgear, while the men on horseback went to sallets and armets.

ETC · Post by **ETC** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:17 am

Thanks for all the info. I think after I finish with my first project and before I try out http://www.arador.com/construction/span ... ruc1a.html

I want to try the helm listed above. However I cannot form the top or anything even close to it. Can anyone give me a tip on where to buy just the top? Or is that even possible? Thanks for any leads!! Konstantin you have a wealth of knowlege. Thanks alot

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:51 am

Any armorer who shows work here can weld one up for you. We usually call 'em helm tops. There are threads you can search for on the term. In particular, I think you can PM Halberds. Durasteel may or may not be interested. Any other contenders are going to have to toot their own horns, as I don't remember who they are just off the top of my balding grizzled head.

Thanks for the kind words ETC; I just learn at the knees of the folks here and take their advice. I seem to be of some use to the new guys starting on their first projects. (I gotta start palling around more with poster rameymj -- he lives just the other end of town and I know he has a garage. He gots a garage, I gots an anvil and a mess o' hammers... easy math.)

Hrolfr · Post by **Hrolfr** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:38 am

That sure has the "Sir Bran" lines :wink:

Adalric the Frank · Post by **Adalric the Frank** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:08 am

It is a Sir Brand........and the dinning table is a Grand Furnishing, bookcase by Walmart.

Hrolfr · Post by **Hrolfr** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:46 pm

Adalric the Frank wrote:It is a Sir Brand........and the dinning table is a Grand Furnishing, bookcase by Walmart.

Thought so, I have 2 Sir Brand helms. It be cooler if the table was by Baron Conal (owe me on this bud!).

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:10 pm

Look up Cet on the archive for a top.

Does anyone have pics of the originals of these (or artwork which is more likely).

I'd like to make one but don't wanna copy other modern armourers work.

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:53 pm

Isn't this style generally (rightly or wrongly) called Italo-Norman or Sicilio-Norman? Phrygian top? Looks like it points forward.

Not saying if it's the right or wrong terms, just seems like that's usually the ones most applied.

Christopher

Helmet Identification Help

Helmet Identification Help

Re: Helmet Identification Help