So I guess im making a crusader...

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Ben
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So I guess im making a crusader...

Post by Ben »

Greetings,
Here in this link I have uploaded all of my stuff I've made for my crusader circa 1210-1250/60 ish
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x243/Bjen_bucket/.
Just ignore the tools, miscellaneous junk, and..THE MONSTROSITY....shudder.. :shock:
Any advice, comments, criticism, and suggestions are wanted. Sorry, no sarcasm at this time please :lol:
I would advise going through all three pages, some pics are out of order.
Need help with gambeson, as its in front, back, and arm tubes, and I need to put em together, and the last 2 maille pictures are of a coif im working on.
:edit: Also, i ahve a 3/4 maille hauberk, not pictured that Id like to get mittens added onto the arms. i call it 3/4, because it gores that distance down my arm. How might I go about doing that, and/or what patterns should I use? I plan to mittenize it due to hidden gaunts are to be underneath.
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Konstantin the Red
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Post by Konstantin the Red »

Mmm... is the capital Monstrosity the shield boss? The remainder of the shield being wood would still treat you well. Trim it out of the triangle thing and planish.

Well, that's one way to make a coif, I suppose. I'd just cast on expansions as and where needed rather than trying to construct and attach little mailpatches between spider-legs. I would just go round and round until the coif cap was large enough, roughly as big as the diameter of the spider leg layout. It's less trouble. The expansion links inserted do everything you were trying to get done with the spider-legs.

Finish up your arming coif with tie tapes, tie it on, and see how it fits. It wouldn't need to be high and pointed, no matter what shape the helmet is. Most coifs are built with two seams and three pieces, whereas you have two. The third piece is a big central skunk stripe. It may taper or dish in at certain spots like the nape of the neck to tailor the coif to fit around your very approximately spherical head.

Your shoulderpieces are more spaudlers than full pauldrons, which really use a central plate whose shape when it's still a flat plate is like a bowtie -- narrow in the middle and very broad at either end, which portions cover the arm cutouts in the breastplate and the considerably lesser cutouts in the upper backplate. However, you're not building circa 1500 plate armor anyway. The spaudler plates need planishing, then smoothing with a large, flat mill file. They are aluminum, right? Don't grind that stuff with a grinder, it's too soft and will clog the grinding stone which prevents it from doing any grinding until the clogged surface has been removed with a stone-dresser. Anything done with abrasives after filing should be done with emery cloth, and in a pretty fine grit. The soft aluminum will still clog the emery cloth, but you're out less money, even with the shortened effective life. Steel wool might serve better for fine finishing; it doesn't get clogged.

A big armhole and a sleeve top that bells out like the mouth of a trumpet gives a lot of arm mobility without strains or any binding of your movements. Go ahead and close up the shoulder and side seams; you'll have a better idea of how it fits once you've actually done that part of the assembly. Hemstitch the neckhole too. You will probably want to finish it with seam binding tape or bias tape so it won't ravel and get all messy; it will be more strongly built then, too. You don't really have an armhole yet. A set-in sleeve lies flatter on the front of your shoulder than a set-on sleeve, which has an excess of fabric right there, which the set-in sleeve handily gets rid of. The grands-assietes sleeve and armhole I mention above is like an extreme example of this -- a very short shoulder seam between neck and where the sleeve top hits the shoulder, and a dramatically flaring sleeve top, like what you would need to attach a long sleeve to a sleeveless undershirt or a singlet top.

A knee-length hauberk would really want a knee length gambeson (or aketon) too. The rule of thumb is wherever there's mail, there's usually padding beneath it. Attach suitable skirts, that flare out some going from hip to hem, with the same split that hauberk skirts have, center front and rear. Just sewing skirts to the waistline of the aketon will do you fine -- it actually tailors well that way. Whatever the length of your shirt, make the aketon of similar length.
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Ben
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Post by Ben »

by the way the monstrosity is the first helm I tried to make, that..weird..nasaly..bascinetty..thing. :lol:
Ill try to get some taped ends for the coif, and I'll try another one with the skunk stripe you mentioned, might fit my weirdly shaped head better.
The shoulder pieces were a test to see if I could flare edges and/or roll edges, and is Definitely not based on anything. and to my my understanding on the aketon, I need to connect the front and back, and have a section that connects the shoulders to this ring around the neck?
Im sorry, you just kinda lost me on that point.
and my shirts skirt and the aketon are actually bout spot on..though I think I will have to add some if it shrinks when they're all put together.
And if i may ask, Do you have any ideas on how I should go about modifying the maille hauberks arms to end in mitts?
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Konstantin the Red
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Post by Konstantin the Red »

Ben wrote:By the way the monstrosity is the first helm I tried to make, that..weird..nasaly..bascinetty..thing. :lol:


Guess I didn't see it; what I did see was pale-gray painted spangenhelm parts with the () shaped nasal. A more than somewhat unusual shape, and what should I say of the color? :P

Seriously, though: for most people, My First Bascinet is welded together out of three pieces: left and right skull and a wrap-around nape plate for the rest of the hat. So you gotta be a welder. Or know one. You do the forming and he sticks it together. (Then follows the SCA-type bargrill visor, either one piece or three, depending on how close you're trying to copy temple-hinge visors.) The identical procedure with some different metal shaping here and there and minus the visor will make you a barbute too. Terribly Italian, and not frightfully common in SCA-land. Some barbutes had nasals, but never, it seems, as long and proboscidean as the original Corinthian helmets they were echoing.

I'll try to get some taped ends for the coif, and I'll try another one with the skunk stripe you mentioned, might fit my weirdly shaped head better.


Or if you like, just rip the central seam of the hood you have, and put a strip in down the middle. It'll do you fine; your head does not seem noticeably pointy... 8) Nor, frankly, weird in any way. You're a rather good-looking fellow.

. . . to my my understanding on the aketon, I need to connect the front and back, and have a section that connects the shoulders to this ring around the neck?
I'm sorry, you just kinda lost me on that point.


Sew the front to the back, at the side seams. At the shoulders, the front and back join with a seam, which is, whattayaknow, called the shoulder seam. You can see a nice clear example of it on any T shirt you own. That's about the only way to close that sort of shirt up. A "short shoulder seam" = really skinny shoulder strap. Like two inches across. There's nothing in the way of a ring of fabric involved; seam tape/bias tape is just colored tapelike stuff that you can use to finish edges or cover raw seams smoothly, and that is what I had in mind. Comes in little packages in the "notions" rack.

And if I may ask, do you have any ideas on how I should go about modifying the [mail] hauberk's arms to end in mitts?


First, have your SCA-protective mitts. Without knowing exactly what you're going to try using, I can say little that would be useful to you. Pics would be good again. If, and I'm going away from what you're trying to get here, you go for hourglass demigauntlets for use with a baskethilt sword and basket handled shield, frankly it wouldn't be worthwhile trying to cover the bell cuffs of such gaunts with anything. With gaunts of that kind, I'd say you're better protected leaving the sleeves at 3/4 and putting hard vambraces on your arms and bell-cuff hourglass gaunts on over these -- a mid-fourteenth century sort of arm armor and a good bit later than what you're trying for. Though it would keep your arm from injury.

Mail shirts typically have the mail lying in closed hang on the torso, but open hang on the sleeves, with the mail linkrows simply extending out from the shoulder section and down the arm. Closed hang molds the mail to the body, fitting it well, and also allowing the wearer to get out of his shirt easily. This is not so crucial with the arms, so open hang happens there. This actually helps with a couple of other details: it's easy to make the elbows take on the shape like the heel of a sock that is needed so your elbows can bend freely without getting squeezed, and it allows mail-backed mitts to freely let your fingers flex open and closed, because the resilient direction of the mail is running parallel to the fingers.

However, it is possible to make shirts with the sleeves in closed hang. Some types of shirt shoulders naturally present linkrows so that closed hang is the easiest way to make the sleeves. This one is good with short sleeves, not as convenient trying to construct long sleeves, and it doesn't play well at all for mail mufflers at the hands.

Maybe you're trying for lacrosse or hockey gloves; you haven't said. If you have the usual kind of open-hang mailshirt sleeve -- a pic of this would have saved some inquiry -- you just extend the linkrows of the sleeve down until the sleeve ends at the wrist, and the mail continues over the back of the hand and the fingers, with an extension angling out over the back of the thumb. It is handy to have an intermediary piece of leather like half a mitten or fingered like the silhouette of a hand -- half a glove -- to which the mail is stitched down all around the edge of the back of the hand extension, and then the protective glove is semipermanently stitched to this leather piece at the finger ends and along the sides of the hand (index finger down to where the thumb joins the hand and the edge of the hand on the opposite side).

Be advised you may find this heavy and somewhat bulky. Period harness and SCA safety requirements don't mesh well for 1200AD. Excess weight at the end of your limb will make that limb slow, which will lose you matches.

Any remark on the Earle arms of Gules, three escallops and a bordure engrailed argent? It would be very good practice -- particularly in good, ethical noblesse -- NOT to precisely replicate a mundanely-existing coat of arms, particularly as your persona is really supposed to be at least in some sense a person separate from your modern earthly identity that you got at your birth. Playing around with the number of charges or some of their type or alteration of the line of flection of the bordure -- all these may establish for you a nice device. There are a lot of things that may be done in devising your device, and it's often a real community effort, involving counseling (freely gotten right here among other good places, as some few of us are present or former heralds), your local Pursuivant of Arms who is to help with design and research and to forward your registration of Device and Persona Name up through Kingdom and thence to Laurel, and too what the findings of the Kingdom heralds researching for conflict, correcting blazon to a good SCA style (slightly different from the blazon above, for instance), and basically making sure your device can get away clean, as it were: yours alone, with no encumbrance of any sort.

When I have no idea what somebody wants, I start with the Monty Python & The Holy Grail series of questions:

What is thy Name? [And he telleth me his persona's name.]
What is thy Quest? [He seeketh not the Holy Grail, oh no; not quite that ambitious just yet. But verily, he seeketh a Device (of Arms, not clockwork) that passeth even Laurel King of Arms.]
What is thy Favourite Colour? [And he telleth me a color or two. Thuth, we thtart; and thith lithp ith killing me.]
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Ben
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Post by Ben »

all my plate comes from the sides of airconditoners and the like. legally obtained, and in large quantities. Im mainly trying to learn metalworking techniques now, before I wast anyones good steel. And I think its a pretty tint of grey :)
Ill of course shave it all off when Im done forming it, and I was unsure how to do the nasal, so I made that one up quick...need to research more.
In terms of the arms, what I was palling to do was have full mitts of steel, with a slightly smaller wrist section worn underneath maille mitts on the outside. that way I avoid the whole sword cage and shield cage look, while maintaining safety. for arm and elbow protection i was going to use an arm harness with splinted rerebrace and vambrace, with steel elbows. Thinkin of having mad matt cover it and legs.
As for her heraldry I long ago discovered that any form of it would be unusable. But I mainly put it there to reference off of, in case of a crash, which i did have at one time. Thats one of those things I think ill need to research a GREAT amount more before I even delve into it.
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Post by Konstantin the Red »

With all the sheet metal you've got around, I'd say don't bother with splint construction but go with plate or leather covered plate.

Gauntlets can be pretty daunting for the tyro -- lots of articulation and getting it to follow your hand's motions. Your fingers do subtle things, they don't curl straight back in -- not quite. They operate on a bit of an angle.

Gaunts made of but a few large pieces, oddly enough, require even more skill to lay out and form, so they actually work with your hand and not try to grind at various parts of you.
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Post by Benedek »

Where at in Kansas are you? I bet there would be some local people who would love to work with you on some projects.
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Ben
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Post by Ben »

Eh...I dunno if they would want to!
I have a primitive anvil and dishing stump, AKA a mild steel slab and a large log with a curl on the side.
it works for what i want it to do, and if they were people within a few miles Id love the help.
most of it is 24 gauge, and anything that might actually be thicker than that im unable to tell what else gauge it would be.
I plan on trying gaunt once I take on this spangen...but thanks for those tips! I'll keep em in mind. As for my location im in the very southwestern corner. it think its around 30 to 70 miles max to Oklahoma or New Mexico, in either east or south..don't remember how far exactly.
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Konstantin the Red
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Post by Konstantin the Red »

Ben, I'm afraid you flunk geography. :twisted:
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Ben
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Post by Ben »

blast you!
I honestly don't remember how far it is!... :sad:
but if it helps, put liberal kansas in a Google earth search. im pretty close to there. And thats the only town nearby that gets ANY sort of attention outside of our immediate area.. :roll:
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Konstantin the Red
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Post by Konstantin the Red »

Well, maybe a stint in the Scouts will teach you east from west. :wink: New Mexico is quite to the west of you! Also quite south, come to that. Anyway, land navigation and compass reading, rubbing two sticks together, and all that. If nothing else, the terrain around Liberal, KS might be conducive to learning celestial navigation! Though I suppose you're getting more towards the, er, rolling terrain end of the state.

Our forebears used anvils every bit that primitive, and we've got the pictures to prove it; no worries there. Quite a few people around this forum use I-beams and two-foot chunks of railroad track. Scrap RR track. Actually, for coldworking sheet metal, we find various forms of stake more useful; ball or mushroom, or the bluntly chisel like creasing stake (which can be made of a 1 1/2" brick chisel by blunting its edge some), T stakes, saddle stakes, and oddballs made up for specialist use.

Cruising on over to someone else's shop -- with an invitation -- is commonly done, and if there's something you want to work on over there, you bring your project along with you.

Time to do a little research on SCA local groups near you: http://www.sca.org/
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Konstantin the Red
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Post by Konstantin the Red »

Looks like motor transport would be the way to connect you with any SCA armor bashers. You're right on the border between two SCA Kingdoms: Kingdom of Calontir and it looks like the nearest large group is in Wichita -- the Barony of Vatavia, and Kingdom of Ansteorra, whose Northern Region

http://northern.ansteorra.org/

might yield you some playmates. However, it looks like you'll traverse many a county before you run into any medievalists, no matter what direction you take.

In Kansas, most of the Creative Anachronists are concentrated in the eastern half of the state, and in Oklahoma, east and southeast. Not very fortunate, geographically!

http://www.calontir.sca.org/seneschal/calontir-map.html

Click on the castles in the colored spots to see who's where.
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