What material/construction would this have been?

[Dierick]

I've been looking through this website that someone posted and have been finding pictures of armour that are simply amazing to me. http://www.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/realonline/ The early 15th century had some wicked looking armours! Everything from square bevors ro rectangular scaled sabatons.

I've been searching for a clear picture of something like this and finally found one:
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Christoffel/7005855.jpg[/img]

What exactly is the material the dags hanging off the shoulder are made of? I see what looks like a trim along the bottom edge of the shoulder, then the dags below that, and don't know where to begin to replicate this. I was thinking it might be leather edging and cloth dags?

I had the same question for the fauld, but I was thinking it was metal on a leather backing. I wanted to replicate it on a kastenbrust breastplate rather than hooped faulds.

[chef de chambre]

Here is a caveat to consider.

From the look of it, it is a scene from antiquity illustrated, and thus any armour depicted, that looks abnormal, and is not found in other sources, is likely to be a device of the artist to indicate the antiquity of the scene, and cannot be automatically taken at face value to represent an actual armour.

[Dierick]

well chef, since it seems you are suggesting that I can't make rational decisions for myself and have to be instructed so...

I've got maybe six representations that appear to be from different artists(completely different art styles).
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Christoffel/7000631.jpg[/img]

Yeah, they are deffinately biblical scenes in almost every one that I have found, but all but a couple of st. george paintings are the exact same biblical scenes and show pretty distinct kastenbrust armours. Here is one showing the odd looking scale faulds:

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Christoffel/7004547.jpg[/img]

[chef de chambre]

I am not saying that you cannot make a rational decision, I am giving you information to make an informed one - that is a very large difference.

I have never seen evidence for that sort of shoulder defense in a 15th century context (the spauldier with pendant flaps or bits of iron). In every instance, it is in an image of antiquity, or on a saint - a famous example would be the reliquary of St. George, offered by Charles the Bold to the Cathedral at Liege in 1470, where St. George wears them, and Charles wears conventional armour.

The solierets and faulds are another matter, and such things are seen in images of contemporary scenes in art.

In the 16th century, a few examples exist of the spauldiers, imitating Roman fashion. In most cases, these are all metal, including the pendent strips.

[Dierick]

heh, I respect your opinion and knowledge chef. I will take your word for it unless I find good evidence otherwise.

On the subject of things that I don't find depictions of anywhere else, what is your opinion on the solierets depicted here:
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Christoffel/7013988.jpg[/img]

(correct me on this as well, solierets are early or late? Or is that the correct term for foot armour and sabaton is a modern word?)

[Alcyoneus]

Yeah, they are definately biblical scenes in almost every one that I have found

There was almost no secular art at the time, so finding it as Biblical scenes isn't a surprise.

You could put the scale skirts on leather, or even a heavy (canvas) cloth if you want. With cloth, you don't even need to punch a hole, but use an awl and create a hole by pushing it through between the threads so that you aren't cutting anything.

The pteruges are leather or cloth, check here:
http://www.legionsix.org/pteruges_and_t ... gmenta.htm

[chef de chambre]

I believe a lot of evidence exists for scale sabatons or sollierets of various forms, like a lot of evidence exists for scale faulds of various forms in Central European art.

You see scale foot defenses all over Europe, mostly scale faulds appear in the HRE and east.

Regarding foot defenses, some scholars use solierets to describe foot defenses with pointed toes, and sabatons to differentiate the cows mouth or rounded toe later varieties. I am not certain that this is a historic difference in terminology, or whether it is a modernisim used to create categories.

[Egfroth]

Deleted - Chef said it better (and sooner!) than I could.

[chef de chambre]

Yeah, they are definately biblical scenes in almost every one that I have found

There was almost no secular art at the time, so finding it as Biblical scenes isn't a surprise.

You could put the scale skirts on leather, or even a heavy (canvas) cloth if you want. With cloth, you don't even need to punch a hole, but use an awl and create a hole by pushing it through between the threads so that you aren't cutting anything.

The pteruges are leather or cloth, check here:
http://www.legionsix.org/pteruges_and_t ... gmenta.htm

That assertion is not correct. Scenes were commonly illustrated of contemporary events, from carved chests (the Courtrai chest, in example), to effigies of people who died, to contemporary portraits, to illustrated manuscripts of recent history or nesar current events.

Religious art uses certain conventions in depictions, like odd pointed hats for saracens, horns on Moses' head, The colour of the Virgin Mary's gown, and its cut. From the late 14th century, at leasrt, it became common to try to depict soldiers of antiquity with some contemporary equipment, but some details to distinguish them. Peturges on romans, translating from leather, to metal pendants are commonplace - you can tell they ar intended to be metalic from the colours used in the depiction, because the few examples Medieval people say were not polychromed statues,. so Medieval artisgts assumed they were metal.