How early for voiders?

Dierick · Post by **Dierick** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:31 pm

About what time period did traditional voiders come into wear? I'm portraying about 1420 and I don't think I have seen any representations of voiders anywhere from this time period, usually just full shirts judging by the bagginess of the visible maille, as opposed to my thinking that voiders were tight against the arming garments.

Cet · Post by **Cet** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:52 pm

There's documentary evidence for voiders in the latter part of the 14th century I'd have to dig it up for the actual sites But IIRC the context was an ordinance from the Low Countries. Dantini mentions importing mail sleeves to Avignon circa 1360 I think.

Milos N. · Post by **Milos N.** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:49 pm

Records of maille sleeves in 14. c. Ragusa, almost through the whole century. They are mentioned as maniche de mallis, maia, or magla in wills and as mortgage (correct word?), since 1335. up until the end of century.

Just my 2 cents

Dierick · Post by **Dierick** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:00 pm

sweet, now hopefully I have something to use the big bag of riveted rings on.

Now, another question(s). Would the voiders be attached to something like a quilted arming garment? This is what I'm working on right now. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v297/Christoffel/Reinactment%20Armour%20Pics/purpoint/

Its only a days work and is shown inside out(bought material for the outside today), but is basically a couple of layers of linen and wool padding. Would I attach the maille to this in the same way as later voiders would have been attached?

And would I sew the voiders on, or use points for it?

If someone wants to just point me in a direction to do my own research, I would be happy with that as well.

arty dave · Post by **arty dave** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:13 pm

Yeah, I was curious about this too. I eventually want to make an arming garment (late 14th/turn of century) that will interact well with voiders. Specifically, a garment that allows the voiders to work with the underarm fabric/gussets. Hope someone can shed light,

Cheers,
Dave.

Milos N. · Post by **Milos N.** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:16 am

I use points. If you place them too far, you cam always ajust the position of the voiders and sleeves. With sewing, you have to do it right the first time, and to resew it if gain/loose some bulk in the arms and chest.

You can check out the plate XVIII in Ffoulks' Armourer and his craft, tha would give you a general idea of how it was done in the 16c. Spain. I doubt that the concept changed much over time, so there should be no problem with using that system.