Gauntlet Striking

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:33 pm

Hey All,

About to build my first pair of leather SCA clamshell gauntlets. All of it is going to be at least 15-16oz. leather, using Duke Gavin's method for glue hardening. I have a smaller section of the hide which is closer to 18oz. Where do you find yourself getting hit the most in the gauntlets? I am thinking either the knuckles, or the first lame of your fingers, but curious as I don't really have any practical experience. Thanks.

kaiÃ¶ · Post by **kaiÃ¶** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:44 pm

Depends what you are fighting with. With a great weapon, you're gonna get hit in the fingers mostly. When you're blocking it's gonna be the distal phalange. Me it's mostly been the first two fingers but a lot of people I know it's in the pinky.

It's also gonna slide down. Make a hammer with your fist. The area pointing to the ceiling, with the thumb, is gonna get bruised.
The thumb itself too, is gonna get mangled, particularly the proximal joint.

I would also really really advise against using leather gauntlets.

D. Sebastian · Post by **D. Sebastian** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:46 pm

Strikes tend to hit me 2 places: the downward shot that lands on the top of the pointer-finger/thumb, and flat shot targeting the arm that lands on the top of the knuckle rider.

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:32 pm

So what I am hearing is that the shot that slides is a big issue (was already planning on curving the top edge to help take care of that), and the knuckles. Planning on doing the thumb with one bend in it, so that it has some gap room over the joint, while still covering. So the areas covering the knuckles and thumb should get the thickest stuff I have?

Kyo, are you saying you get hit on the tips of your fingers a lot? I was skeptical of using leather gauntlets until I found a method that I felt gave me enough rigid protection, while being padded, and should ground out on the rattan. I know some guys with House of the Wolf leather gauntlets, and they love them.

kaiÃ¶ · Post by **kaiÃ¶** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:10 pm

Oswyn - yes, fingertips. Grab a stick and look, you'll see they're lying flat on the rattan and exposed. It's very easy to have them crushed.

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:32 pm

Yeah, but I was thinking with great weapons, the other hand's knuckles stick out farther than the fingers. Either way, I will probably end up using the knuckles and the tips as the thickest stuff, and try and find the next thickest for everything else.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:56 pm

I've very rarely had the finger tips get caught (though when it happens it's nasty). The base of the thumb takes a beating. A brutal beating.

Check the greatsword/polearm fighters you know (people who fight these forms lots) and ask them two questions (a) do you have full mobility in your thumbs ? (see if they can touch the thumb tip to the palm below the pinky) (b) what do you wear on your hands ?

Correllate the mobility level with the gauntlets worn and I bet you will find something interesting.

For protecting the fingertips it isn't the heavy leather that's needed, so much as it is the good coverage design. For the thumbs (and I mean the base of the thumb here, where everything that slides down your weapon will land) you want both good design and the strongest stuff you can get.

Wulfgar · Post by **Wulfgar** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:36 pm

Properly hardened and padded leather gauntlets are fine. I made mine out of 1/4 inch thick leather (not sure how many 0z that is), first time I water hardened them and they got soft, I was hit with a full powered swing in the finger tips with a 2 hander, hurt like hell but nothing broken. I rehardened them with just parafin wax and they are rock solid now(also 8mm padding in them)

So as to not expose your finger tips you can aways make the gauntlet so the end wraps around to cover the tips of your fingers.

With the padding I have not found that sliding shots etc are a problem, when leather gauntlets are hard they are fine and I would wager that glue would go harder than the parafin method.

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:38 pm

I am not worried about the base of the thumb much. I assume all of you are talking mostly about the webby part between the thumb and forefinger. This is well covered in the gauntlet design I am using.

Still undecided about the end of the thumb and what I want to do with it.

AngusGordon · Post by **AngusGordon** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:41 pm

Well guy, I'll tell you this, I am not the polearm God but I know my way around one

. I have worn leather, kydex and mild steel gauntlets now I am wearing stainless ones made from Zwiehammer's kit. These are absolutely the best ones as far as protection goes, that I have ever owned.
I don't recommend leather either.

Wulfgar · Post by **Wulfgar** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:44 pm

The only real problem with leather gauntlets is the maintenance, which is why I went and got a pair of brands Al ones, not as good as my leather one movement wise but pretty good all around

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:11 am

1/4" is approx. 16 oz. (1/64" being 1oz.). So let me check if I got all of the points.

Really thick stuff needs to be:
Base of thumb/webbing between thumb and forefinger
Fingertip lame

Make sure the gauntlets extend a bit past the tips of my fingers
Make sure thumb joint is secure.

Guys, I understand not everyone trusts leather gauntlets. I am going to try these and see how they turn out. Partially it is money, partially is the fact I can custom build them to my hands for the money, part of it is they will look uber-spiff (leather tooling).

These are planning on being padded, as well as having the sides curve to attempt to bottom out on the rattan.

audax · Post by **audax** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:45 pm

My poor little paws take a BEATING when I fight pole or greatsword.

Across the tops of the fingers and all parts of the thumb.

The two biggest issues I have with gaunts are thumb protection and mobility. I change my hand position all the time when fighting polearm depending how close I am to my opponent and what target I am attacking. The latter is a problem with leather gaunts due to the thickness of the material.

I think that many people do not understand the complexity of the thumb, particularly the base.

I think a minimum of 4 lames is necessary for proper mobility. By mobility I mean the ability to easily open and close my hands to move them to a different position on the haft/hilt of my weapon. One problem I have had is that the top finger lame will hang up on the thumb. Aggravating when some wild eyed sheildman is rushing me and I'm trying to choke up on my weapon for close quarters.

Leather gaunts can be made very hard, so that has not been an issue.

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:48 pm

The ones I am making are going to end up being about 6 lames, starting right below the knuckles (yes on the back of the hand). The base of the thumb seems to be pretty well protected, simply by overprotecting any way that it could possibly move. It leads to a bit of extra material at the bottom inside of the thumb, but I will take that for the protection it gives. I am just trying to figure out the actual thumb piece, and how I want it to move. Right now, the thumb has been going to just past the knuckle, and terminating (been making articulating half gauntlets with the pattern). Overall, the trials seem to articulate just fine, but none of them had a full thumb. Once that is figured out to my satisfaction and I get 5 min. of free time, I will put up some pics as it progresses.

Audax, did you catch the 1100's dagger thread on MyArmoury?

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:27 am

Oswyn_de_Wulferton wrote:The ones I am making are going to end up being about 6 lames, starting right below the knuckles (yes on the back of the hand). The base of the thumb seems to be pretty well protected, simply by overprotecting any way that it could possibly move. It leads to a bit of extra material at the bottom inside of the thumb, but I will take that for the protection it gives. I am just trying to figure out the actual thumb piece, and how I want it to move. Right now, the thumb has been going to just past the knuckle, and terminating (been making articulating half gauntlets with the pattern). Overall, the trials seem to articulate just fine, but none of them had a full thumb. Once that is figured out to my satisfaction and I get 5 min. of free time, I will put up some pics as it progresses.

Audax, did you catch the 1100's dagger thread on MyArmoury?

I'm not sure about the 1100's dagger thread. I sent you a pm a while back with some stuff I found over there. Is it a recent or new thread, like last couple weeks?

A screw it, I might as well go over there an check it out meself. :lol: